So in the SS Brake Line thread, we started to get off in on tangent about vendor pricing. I probably started it, so instead of throwing it further off topic, I thought I would start a new thread. Here is the progression:
Good deal no doubt. But what I find funny that they are able to offer this discount, and still make money. Any good company won't sell products and lose money. So they were making $32 profit and maybe more on every set of SS brake lines they sold? Quite possible.
what's the problem with that? the goodridge lines sell all day long for 100 or more for the set, so they're competitive no doubt. every place you buy things has markup. some items have more markup than others, i'd even venture to say that some of the stuff zzp has, they may not break even on. this is no different from any other commercial vendor pretty much anywhere.
No, don't get me wrong, I agree that businesses have to raise their price over what they paid to make a profit. I understand that. But the problem I have is the attitude about the "price gouging". ZZP often comes off on other boards like they are selling things at rock bottom prices and not making a dime. They will "claim poverty" in hopes of making the buyers feel bad for them and accept their inflated prices. Sure, they may sell some of their custom parts at little to no markup (but I highly doubt it), but they make loads of money on the common parts that people can find cheaper elsewhere (SS lines, struts, gaskets, tranny fluid, etc). But people think that ZZP is selling these things to help them out and they know grand prixs, so they won't rip me off. Yes, they will rip you off, and they do it every day. Maybe "rip off" isn't the correct term. But they seriously inflate prices, and people that trust ZZP to be fair sadly pay those prices.
Just my $.02 on it. Sorry to take this thread off track...
The market helps determine what any vendor, including ZZP can sell their products for. If people werent buying the parts, the vendor is going to cut prices, or cut products, or go out of business. that's just the nature of the beast, and you're kidding yourself if you think that any major vendor isnt this way. but like you said, is off topic, so let's let it rest, and back to the brake lines....
Okay, we can let it go.
:th_thumbsup-wink:
Anything can usually be purchased cheaper if you shop and shop. The point of ZZP is that it's taylored to our cars and it's a one stop shop. You know that what you buy will work and it's easy to find things. We charge less than the dealer, less than other 3800 vendors and give out advice on the use of products. I fail to see how this is price gouging. Look at the stainless brake lines. They are a custom part. You can't buy "longer than stock" stainless lines unless you shop around. We're cheaper than most places like PFYC on the lines and I posted a 30% off coupon here for you guys.
Take the trans fluid you posted as an example. 1st off, it's not sold anywhere but GM dealerships. You won't find it at Advance or Napa. Then when you do call a dealer, not many stock it. you have to call or drive around. When you do go to pick it up will they tell you how much your trans takes? How about if you are installing a shift kit? What if you have a 245 or 258mm converter? Will they tell you the difference between Dex 6 and 3? do they know?
All of these things come into play with the products we sell. That's what distinguishes us from Summit or Jeggs. Our parts are specific and so is the information and tech support. Hell, we have an entire article written just on that transmission fluid. How many places that sell it have written an article? I wrote it personally after much R&D and testing. I can even give you HP loss numbers based on the transmission fluids temperature. So how much is that worth? Is your time worthless? Would you go to work for free at your job? ZZP is my job. Don't you think we deserve to make an extra 50 cents on a gallon of trans fluid to compensate for the R&D and tech articles or are you a person that shops our site for the information and then drives around to save $2 on products so we don't 'rip you off'? If that's the case I would ask that you stop ripping us off by gleaning our information for free. At least contribute by sending us tech articles to post, buying our stuff or sending a donation...
Edit for another thought...About 1/2 of the parts on ZZP are designed, developed by ZZP and custom for your car. How can you even put a baseline price on something that doesn't exist? What do you think funds the development of these products? Looking at your mod list, you're running 1.84 rockers. Guess what? ZZP developed those. Someone had to pay for the wages of a person taking the time to test rocker ratios and find out the highest you can safely run without valve float on stock springs. So you are reaping the benefit of the so called "price gouging" by ZZP. I'm sorry for going on and on but as the owner I've poured blood, sweat and tears into this company and re-invested our profits into developing parts to help the comunity. i would hope that ZZP could have enough appreciation that we don't have to be the brunt of baseless attacks for selling merchandise at a profit.
So, the last post, Zoomer's, is the one I want to respond to. He touched on everything except the SS brake lines which were the item I originally mentioned. As I noted, he offered a $32 discount. Thus why I said they seemed overpriced since they are probably still making a profit even after the $32 price increase.
But my point about price gouging is this. Where I work, we sell our product. We are in an honest business and not our to screw anyone over. If someone needs a part and tells me "I don't care what it costs. As long as it is cheaper than your competitor at $XX.XX." Do I just try to beat that price? Or do I figure my costs, add my 20% profit margin, and sell it honestly, while still making a profit. Since I believe I am not out to screw over my customers, I sell it for my costs plus 20%.
So as for the brake lines. If I am in business, and I can get them made at $60 a set, I would sell them at $72 and make an honest profit. If someone else is selling them for $99, I don't automatically raise my price to $89 to make more profit. To me, that is selfish by wanting as much profit I can without regards to the customer. This is my view on the brake lines.
The same applies to any other general product that may be purchased and resold (gaskets, springs, struts, etc.) I think it is fair to charge 20% profit on these parts. And this would make you a one stop shop while still turning a profit. And if you do research and have extra time, that is fine to figure it in on the costs. You know how much time you spent on it. And you know your target sales for that product. Divide it out, and raise the price accordingly. Again, fine by me.
But the problem I have is when I the prices I see are significantly more than I can buy locally. If the parts I buy at a local parts store are more than 20% cheaper than another's prices, then yes, I think this is unfair. Not saying a little guy can get the same gasket at the same price as a big parts store. I realize this. But when Autozone can sell a gasket for $10, and turn a profit, a smaller retailer should be able to buy that same gasket for $10 or less, and be expected not to sell it for $18. Again, some companies have no problems ripping off their customers. But I feel that I honestly cannot do this.
And Zoom mentioned tranny fluid. Yes,
GM Dexron VI is only available at dealers. But I can get Valvoline full synthetic Dex VI for $3.80 a quart. Even from my local dealer, I can get GM Dex VI for $4.50 a quart. With no shipping either place. Just stop on the way home from work. And yes, those places will all look up and tell me how much I need. And yes, they know the difference between Dex VI and Dex III (and that Dex III should no longer be used since Dex VI is better). And if I can get fluid from GM for $4.50 a quart, a retailer should be able to buy in bulk, or with a tax ID number, and get it cheaper.
As for R&D or parts. That is great that you have the ability to build and test parts. But again, those price increases should only be seen on the parts that the R&D was done on. You
should know the time that was put into them. You
should know the number of units you expect to sell. You
should know the overhead costs and labor costs. So its fairly easy to figure out the price of a product, with the R&D that went into that product included in it. If the price is too much and not comparable with other similar products on the market, then sufficient research wasn't done on that product before hand.
So in the end, I will buy my parts from the place that sells them at a fair price, and thus a fair profit. I work hard for my money and don't like being ripped off. These are not baseless attacks. Just my opinions on the matter. I have bought from ZZP and probably will in the future is the price is right. But yes, I shop around and spend my hard earned money on the parts that are priced the most reasonable.
