okay guys so i finished my suspension, vogtland springs in the front (200#), wbs heightening springs in the rear (350#) kyb gr2's all the way around, new oem front sway bar (28mm) w/energy suspension bushings, addco rear sway bar (22mm) w/poly bushings, front replacement LCA's w/problem solver bushings, and running on 245/45/17 kumho ecsta 4X 2 all the way around. Now the with that is when you're on lift off throttle the rear doesn't want to slide out. What's going on?
No sideways action?!
- Thread starter GTpEazy
- Start date
Fivefingerdeathpunch
New member
I can't tell if you are serious or not????????
So you upgraded the suspension and tires to handle nice and you thought the rear end would still want to step out around a hard corner?
So you upgraded the suspension and tires to handle nice and you thought the rear end would still want to step out around a hard corner?
Well the whole point of the rear addco and 350# springs was so the rear would kick out on lift off like a type r ep3 would behave. the handling IS on a different level, these kumhos really might be the best A/S tires on the market and grip is abundant.... The responsiveness is really on another level and the cornering is relatively flat. But I really thought with so much weight up front i thought the rear would rotate a little bit better and maybe even oversteer w/lift off, much like how the newer FWDs behave, except you know... more boatlike
Fivefingerdeathpunch
New member
Lift off oversteer just makes it slower. I'd rather if the whole thing planted so it corners fast and smooth.
thats not the only problem, see i feel like lift off oversteer is an indication that the rotation is healthy, i feel like the rear is still not rotating as well as I thought it would.... my friend seems to think the handling of this is similar to that of an accord which made me sad
idrivejunk
New member
I don't get it either, sounds like you desire the undesireable to me. FWD GPs have automatics so theres virtually no compression braking. Buy a stick shift Acura if thats what it takes for friends' comments to not make you sad. Or find friends not so into rice. Or explain what rotation means to you.
Well as far as rotation goes I'd like the rear to keep up with the front and not lag behind on trail braking. But I don't know if it's the poly sway bar bushings or the new LCAs w/ the problem solver bushings or maybe the help of both but the front end is SO sensitive. I love it, the steering response is absolutely amazing, the tiniest little input gives you great output. It feels very much like a modern car and not like a typical 90s car. The grip of these tires are absolutely incredible, the whole day I've been hard on the car right after I got everything done and the tires squealed maybe once out of a slow corner on excessive throttle. The full potentials of these tires obviously can't be witnessed in the streets and all the road courses I believe are closed for the winter. Hopefully there'll be one last local autox and see what the limits of these tires are really. The car overall feels absolutely amazing, feels very much like a well composed modern car. A bit of roll is present but that's because I kept the (or rather bought a new) oem front bar w/ energy bushings instead of going with a GMPP or Dorman bar... but I don't mind a little bit of roll. I just thought it would've been a little easier to place the rear where I wanted. I thought with an addco bar and especially with the huge 350# (HEIGHTENING!) springs in the rear the rear would be a bit more... I don't wanna say twitchy... but twitchy. With that said I haven't got to take the car out on a road course yet, I've not explored the entire suspension or tire capabilities yet (w/ stock brakes lol), but I think I'll have to adjust my driving style because it feels a little better taking a turn almost like a RWD (brake earlier, apex w coasting and throttle out) rather than taking a turn like a FWD (excessive trail braking thru mid corner, then throttle out). The car truly is on another level though, with a better driver than me I'd expect this boat to be running around with new hot hatches out there (if not faster)
Oh PS it's been only 2 wks since the front Vogtlands went in, they lowered about .5" or so... even at that the struts feel a little too soft. The rear was heightened about 1.5" but now it settled to a little under 1" over stock... the rake looks very healthy and the fenders look very good (no more sag, I'll post pics and a thread w/ everything soon), regardless, some better struts ie Bilsteins would be SO much better for the ride quality
PSS ... I've also got some shorter dog bones and poly mounts that I haven't put on yet, I doubt they'll make a huge difference in handling but I'm sure they'll help me put more power down... the only things left on the suspension that I really need are trailing arms and lateral arms... and obviously brakes.
Oh PS it's been only 2 wks since the front Vogtlands went in, they lowered about .5" or so... even at that the struts feel a little too soft. The rear was heightened about 1.5" but now it settled to a little under 1" over stock... the rake looks very healthy and the fenders look very good (no more sag, I'll post pics and a thread w/ everything soon), regardless, some better struts ie Bilsteins would be SO much better for the ride quality
PSS ... I've also got some shorter dog bones and poly mounts that I haven't put on yet, I doubt they'll make a huge difference in handling but I'm sure they'll help me put more power down... the only things left on the suspension that I really need are trailing arms and lateral arms... and obviously brakes.
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djudge1970
New member
I am not sure I understand. If you want the rear side action you speak of sounds like a rear wheel drive car to me. Just buy an 02 trans am ws6 (posi) and go crazy. To stiffen up suspension and expect it to be loose is kind of silly. Just one old guys opinion.
I would've loved a TA a formula more specifically but it's rwd and is not a very good idea on the snow, I'm trying to make the best of it with what I got... Now realize that Ive not gotten a chance to take the car nearly to the limits but I could've sworn to make the rear behave a little better you'd be looking to stiffen up the rear on a fwd to have the handling set towards oversteer
Scottydoggs
Killa Bee
since when is rwd bad in snow? FWD really sucks in snow, and its so much fun if the back end kicks out and guess what? your just in for the ride, you got no control of the ass end.
you need the driver mod.
you need the driver mod.
stealthee
New member
You're driving a 3600 lb FWD boat. It's not going to handle like you want it to unless you change engines, drivetrain configurations, and to a manual transmissions.
As far as RWD in snow, all you need is snow tires, a little weight, and some know how. I had several people tell me that my Mustang I had would never make it up the hill I lived on in the snow. Well, needless to say I proved everyone wrong. I drove around 4WD vehicles that had gotten themselves stuck in that thing.
As far as RWD in snow, all you need is snow tires, a little weight, and some know how. I had several people tell me that my Mustang I had would never make it up the hill I lived on in the snow. Well, needless to say I proved everyone wrong. I drove around 4WD vehicles that had gotten themselves stuck in that thing.
Either way, let's not get lost in the rwd conversion... let's focus more on our cars... like I said I'm very impressed with how the front half of the car behaves, it's surprisingly responsive and it shows in the turn-in.... the grip I'm sure it grips as well as any other performance cars on the road running A/S tires... This feels very good for a 3600 lbs car(well 97-03 is more like 3500)
QuinlanGTP
New member
Are you trying to get more drift out of the back?
djudge1970
New member
You want the back to go sideways in the snow, just do the hand brake mod. take hand brake out of Grand Am and have a blast.
Here's the thing tho, I don't wanna do things like that... I want a car that behaves similarly to say the type r integras that let the tail slide out a little bit after lift off throttle or little aggressive trail braking... I want the handling as described by this man right here http://www.grandprixforums.net/threads/95102-The-Addco-rear-sway-bar-is-not-dead! I want handling similar to that which is why my build is eerily similar to his... except I have an oem front sway w/ Vogtland lowering springs up front instead of dorman front sway and oe springs up front.
stealthee
New member
Exactly what I was going to say.
You want Honda/Acura handling? Buy a Honda Civic, an Acura Integra, a GTI, or something like that. You are not going to get Honda handling out of a W-body.
idrivejunk
New member
One Grand Am brake lever for each rear wheel, yeah!
pEasy, I think... well it doesn't matter what I think. But Mother Nature and Professor Physics are working against you, I checked. They suggested helium balloon in trunk and lateral steering rocket engines on quarter panels but I think they were teasing. Theres no way around that extra half ton, you have a car with a cast iron pushrod engine. There is a way to silence mouthy ricer buddies though, take them on in a straight line. You know your own limits, teach them theirs and don't wreck. Even my old GT puts a smackdown on an Integra (maybe not the extra letter kind, who knows), heck it even made my friend's daughter's 240 HP Honda break a VTEC. I'll step off here though, because in my experience with FWD GPs, oversteered means upside-down call a wrecker.
FWIW, I think maybe I get it... you want a car that keeps both rears on the ground and slides, rather than one that lifts one wheel and flips over. That, I understand. Good luck and practice safely!
pEasy, I think... well it doesn't matter what I think. But Mother Nature and Professor Physics are working against you, I checked. They suggested helium balloon in trunk and lateral steering rocket engines on quarter panels but I think they were teasing. Theres no way around that extra half ton, you have a car with a cast iron pushrod engine. There is a way to silence mouthy ricer buddies though, take them on in a straight line. You know your own limits, teach them theirs and don't wreck. Even my old GT puts a smackdown on an Integra (maybe not the extra letter kind, who knows), heck it even made my friend's daughter's 240 HP Honda break a VTEC. I'll step off here though, because in my experience with FWD GPs, oversteered means upside-down call a wrecker.
FWIW, I think maybe I get it... you want a car that keeps both rears on the ground and slides, rather than one that lifts one wheel and flips over. That, I understand. Good luck and practice safely!