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Lifter and LIM gasket replacement

plasmeh

plasmeh

New member
  • Vehicle:
2001 Grand Prix GTP 2 door Coupe, 3.8L Supercharged Engine

DSCF3054.jpg



  • Symptoms:
1) SUSPECTED LIFTERS: Light ticking (not knocking) from top of engine in middle at startup. Rough idle/revving until sound disappears after 30 seconds to 1 minute. Engine then smooths out after the lifter pumps up and eliminates the gap between the pushrod and the rocker, thus also elminating the ticking sound that was caused by the gap between the two.

>>VIDEO 1 - Depicts lifter tick at a cold start.

>>VIDEO 2 - Depicts seemingly normal running engine after car has been running for some time. No apparent noise from lifters.

2) SUSPECTED LIM (lower intake manifold) LEAK: Missing coolant from resovoir. Coolant found under oil cap. No apparent leaks dripping from vehicle.

Suggestion: If you notice cooling missing from your resovoir and have no leaks, check under for oil cap for remnants of coolant. It will look like orange water droplets if you still have Dexcool in your cooling system. Coolant may also puddle up and mix with grease/dirt/oil on your plenum. Remove plastic engine cover to inspect. Do NOT wait to replace your LIM gasket if you have these symptoms or you will be replacing lifters like me or worse, replacing/refreshing your short block after you spin a rod bearing.

  • Parts:
Autozone: 10W-30 synthetic Mobil 1 oil, oil filter, coolant

RockAuto: (www.rockauto.com)
Dorman/Heater Hose Fitting (coolant elbows) (Part # 47065)
FEL-PRO Part # MS98014T (LIM GASKET SET)
FEL-PRO Part # MS95744 (SUPERCHARGER GASKET)
FEL-PRO Part# 61024 (TB GASKET)
FEL-PRO Part # VS50465R (valve cover gaskets and grommets)
Autolite XP606 Spark plugs @ 6
DNJ/ROCK ENGINE COMPONENTS Part # LIF3104 @ 12
___________________
Subtotal: $185.81 (+shipping)


Summit Racing (www.summitracing.com):
Supercharger oil 4oz bottle @ 2 #12345982
___________________
Subtotal: $17.90 (+shipping)

GM Dealership:
Rocker arm bolts (sold in packs of 5) 3 packs required
___________________
Subtotal: $25.92 (including 8% NY tax)

GRAND TOTAL: $229.63 (+shipping, coolant, oil, filter)

  • Repair Process:
How-To video prepared by other enthusiasts (thanks!): 33 minute step-by-step how-to video

>>RESOLVED - Video depicts the vehicle after LIM and lifters had been replaced using the above part numbers. Repair process complete.

_________________________________________________________________________

  • My Issues:
My car has 89k miles (not beat on by any means), is in immaculate shape and I have used synthetic oil with regular changes since 59k miles when I got the car. I have identified that I have a lifter ticking in my engine - I'm familiar with the sound. Car idles a bit rough at startup until the lifter pumps up to bring up the slack on the pushrod/rocker to operate the valve. Once the lifter pumps up, the ticking stops and the car smooths out. Usually in about a minute.

I have also noticed I'm losing coolant - and it's not dripping out. I checked under the oil cap for coolant and it's there. So I know I need to immediately replace the upper and lower intake manifold gaskets - I already have the Felpro redesigned gaskets in my hands along with valve cover gaskets with grommets, TB gasket (might as well), a new thermostat, coolant elbows, and for the heck of it I'm doing plugs, wires, and changing the supercharger oil as well.

I'd rather not take the chance that after I get it together the ticking 'might' stop as I've seen mixed results on this. If it doesn't, it means I'll have to take it apart in favor of another set of gaskets and lifters plus oil, coolant, etc... Can't do that. I'm not made of money. So that means I should also replace the lifters.

My question: What lifters does everyone use for stock replacements? Rockauto.com has the: DNJ/ROCK ENGINE COMPONENTS Part # LIF3104 for about $7.50/lifter. Autozone has lifters for $11 or so. I really don't have the money for lifters now in the first place, but I'll bite the bullet for them since I need them. Anyone forsee issues with me using what rockauto has to offer?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Stock lifters typically give you the best and quietest lifter for the money. I have heard that if you buy just the 12 lifters it's more expensive than buying the LS package of 16.

When you say redesigned, you mean with locating pins right? If the gaskets in your hand are black plastic frame, don't use them. Get the Fel Pro's with the T on the end of thepart number or the GM gaskets. They will have a metal frame and keep this issue from cropping up again.
 
I have edited the original post to reflect the parts I have ordered for the repair.

I'll also post a video up later of the sound this is making for future reference of anyone searching through threads for answers like I did.
 
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Also, I'm aware that the rocker arm nuts will need to be replaced since they are torque to yield nuts. Where can I find replacements?
 
plasmeh said:
Also, I'm aware that the rocker arm nuts will need to be replaced since they are torque to yield nuts. Where can I find replacements?
Click to expand...


The bolts can be purchased at the dealer or from one of the vendors that cater to our platform. Most vendors offer bolts that are reusable and stock tty replacement ones
 
2000SILVERSE3800 said:
The bolts can be purchased at the dealer or from one of the vendors that cater to our platform. Most vendors offer bolts that are reusable and stock tty replacement ones
Click to expand...

Thank you. I called the dealer up and ordered the necessary parts. I will update the first post with the added parts.
 


Are you sure its not an injector ticking? I thought mine was a lifter at first too until I stuck a screw driver on my fuel rail and heard the tick. Try checking that out before changing the lifters
 
try some seafoam before you go for new lifters.
and injectors are loud. my stock injectors had me fooled into thinking it was the lifters.
a good check for lifters: when the car is cold, pull the valve covers off of both banks and check for any play in the rockers. if not, start the engine and watch for a rocker that is not lifting completely during the noise.
you should invest in a mechanics stethescope. $7.99 at harbor freight.
 
you ran it in the crankcase? i would try one more flush with seafoam for another 100 miles.
and then i would definately put new lifters in it.
 
When I did my LIM gasket replacement last April, I also replaced my lifters because previously, upon startup, I had a lifter tick that would last for 30-60 seconds and during that time, my engine was running rough. Once the lifter quieted down, my engine smoothed out nicely. I added some Rislone to the oil and ran it for a couple of days which did quiet the lifter down for a week or so and then the noise came back. The only way I could keep it quiet was if I changed the oil every 500-600 miles. I figured when I had the whole thing torn down, I might as well replace the lifters so that I didn't have to tear the whole thing down again. I bought LS7 lifters from Texas Speed. Part # 28-12499225-12 which is a set of 12 LS7 lifters. Cost now is $97.99 for the set. Cheap enough to do. Everything has been running smooth and quiet for over a year now.
 


Decided to go ahead and pull the supercharger off and the lower intake to replace the LIM gaskets and replace the lifters - glad I did. While there wasn't a lot, I did find some coolant/oil mixture in the oil valley. The LIM gasket was broken in two places just as shown in the how-to video posted above. Additionally, as I removed the lifters, I noticed they were extremely sticky and smelled somewhat of coolant. There were a couple small pools of oil/coolant mixture, and I didn't drop a single drop of coolant lifting the intake off, so that was there to begin with. There was hardly any coolant in the oil when I drained it, but there was some there. I have lifters coming tomorrow, so I will wash the lifter oil valley down with some synthetic oil, then I'll fill it up, reassemble, and hopefully won't have any leaks or ticking. I'll change the oil after a day or two again to be sure I get the crap out!
 
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2011-05-05220825.jpg

Replaced TB gasket and cleaned it out good (entire interior was black when I started):

2011-05-04213502.jpg


Changed rear spark plugs out using a ratchet. All plugs easily came out using this configuration and a 3/8 drive ratchet, 3 inch extension, and 5/8 deep socket:

2011-05-04213539.jpg


New Fel-Pro gaskets:

2011-05-05220717.jpg


This is the stuff you do not want to see in your oil. It's obvious here that there is oil/coolant separation and discoloration. If you feel it, this mixture will be somewhat sticky:

2011-05-05220727.jpg


Stay organized through the process to make your life a lot easier:

2011-05-05220817.jpg
 
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I'm not sure if you've done it, but I'd suggest taking the IAC valve off and cleaning the piston and the bore.

Be careful with that EGR tube, they're known to crack and result in a vacuum leak without reacting to carb cleaner or propane. Also vacuum might not show a leak either. Best way to check is to see what the IAC value is when the motor is warmed up and idling.


Other than that, it looks like you've got everything under control.

Also sweet sig pic.
 
matt5112 said:
I'm not sure if you've done it, but I'd suggest taking the IAC valve off and cleaning the piston and the bore.

Be careful with that EGR tube, they're known to crack and result in a vacuum leak without reacting to carb cleaner or propane. Also vacuum might not show a leak either. Best way to check is to see what the IAC value is when the motor is warmed up and idling.


Other than that, it looks like you've got everything under control.

Also sweet sig pic.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on the EGR tube. I was a bit worried about that myself. As of now, it hasn't cracked. I will check the IAC valve and clean it up.

Thanks for the tips. And also for the compliment on the Camaro. That's where most of my attention is focused :) I hit the local 1/8th mile frequently. So far it's down to an 8.51 @ 84.7mph with a 1.91 60' on g-Force Sport street tires. Not a speed demon, but it's something fun to do alongside some auto-x events in the area.
 
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Sorry for jumping in but the problem seems some what like mine. My car sometimes starts slowly in other words not quickly turning over. After it starts, a lite ticking noise starts until the car warms up and then stops
 
Car is back together and runs perfectly now. No ticking on cold starts and no odd sounds or any other issues. Will post before and after videos/pics tonight with updated first post information.
 
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