How difficult is it to upgrade/replace lifters?

[nik12937]

Just for info, I own an 05 Grand Prix GT, with about 80,000 miles on it (poor baby was a rental, upkept well except for fluid changes, oil not too bad, but damn that was some nasty tranny fluid, have to replace my PCC now...)

I was looking to... "beef up" some of my valvetrain later on to get the most out of my L26 and do my own tune, just to make it more fun as my DD until I save up all the money for a Z3 turbo kit and a transmission build (probably a few years down the road). I was planning on ER rockers, sturdier chromoly pushrods, 105# crow cams springs with retainers nad valve locks, an HV3 (all of this being from zzp), along with a homemade FWI and headers.

I have never done any internal engine work, but all of those things seem relatively straight forward to do. I've got all the socket sizes I think I'd EVER need (thanks for the b-day present ma!), along with a torque wrench (any other recommended tools/equipment save a lift?)

I was interested in upgrading my lifters as well though, to some Comp Cams OE-R lifters, mainly for peace of mind really, but probably good to get out of the way for the turbo later on. So here's the couple questions I've got for the more experienced GP owners:

1) How much more tear down is required to access the lifters, and what exactly is meant by installing between 1/4 and 3/4 turn vs 1/2 to 1.5 turns on stock lifters?
2) Are there any other tools that are reasonably priced which would make the job go smoother/parts I'm missing?
3) Which gaskets should I replace? I believe I already have aluminum LIM gaskets as it's an 05 but I could be wrong, I should probably flush out my coolant as I have no idea if the rental place ever got rid of the Dex.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice, I searched a bunch f times but I'm still scratching my head about thee couple things :th_scratchhead:

 

[blueguy]

OE-R Lifters suck.

They are clattery...loud, and don't really do much to help anything.

If you want to change the lifters...for whatever reason, put LS7 ones in there from Texas Speed under the FBody 3800 section.

1) ....they just drop in...lube them before install
2) Nope, just some basic hand tools
3) If the LIM gaskets are black, they are plastic...if they are gray/silver...then they are the aluminum ones...I also am not a fan of Dexsludge...just flush it out and refill with the cheap green or yellow crap.

Also, if you plan on turbo...don't waste your money on headers...because they aren't compatible with a turbo setup.

I'd do the 105's, HV3, Ported/Polished LIM, 180* T-Stat, AL605's...gapped at .050"...I'd say skip the rockers...and go cam...but that's just me...ER Rockers aren't a BAD upgrade...but it leaves a huge gap vs. a cammed setup.

 

[BillBoost37]

Nice to see a newb post like this asking the various questions that many of us take for granted as common knowledge.

First off OE-R lifters do not have anywhere near the amount of preload that stock lifters have. Stock replacement lifters (LS7) would be better. Because of the preload difference OE-R's are known as loud and annoying lifters. They don't give you any advantages over stock except helping you to empty your wallet faster.

To replace lifters, you would take off the alternator, upper intake manifold, lower intake manifold, valve covers, coil pack bracket, rocker arms (requires new bolts), lifter retaining piece

Hopefully your socket set has deep six point sockets in it. You will want to ensure for tools you have the following.
Sockets, deep or shallow
7mm
8mm
3/8"

Sockets Deep
10mm
13mm
15mm

Ratchet
Magnet
Metric wrench set
3" and 6" extensions
Ability to torque at 87inch lbs and 15ft lbs
Pick or small screwdriver

It would be good for you to find the youtube video of doing a lower intake gasket or maybe it was rockers. You'd be doing all that except not removing the springs until you went with rockers down the road.

 

[nik12937]

I'd LOVE to do a cam but I'm honestly really hesitant about accomplishing that myself, I feel as if there's more that could go wrong compared to rockers.

I could be wrong though, I may not have any hands on experience with engine internals, but I've done my suspension (sway bars, trailing arms, etc, just skipped the struts due to how effed PA roads always are), electrical (HO alternator, Big 3, soldered all terminals), and all the basic maintenance, so I could possibly learn.

I didn't realize the lifters would be that easy though, about as hard as the rockers and such! I'll look into the F-Body lifters, I know what you mean by engine chatter, my 05 GP makes just a bit when I start it cold until it's warm, hope that's not bad.

I could have swore that ZZP had an option for previous TOG, I thought they meant headers, but now that I think about it they could just mean downpipe and such, I'm forgetting how a turbo GETS its power

I've got all those sockets, but I did just realize that my torque wrench may not go that low (better suited for suspension parts I guess... or something like that), I'll make sure I get one capable.

I did find a video by another member on lifters and a new LIM gasket: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5O9dYc9w5vmMzJlZjRmYzktZDkwYS00OGIyLThmYTAtN2FhNjY5NmY3ZTk0/edit

He's working on an L67 so the Eaton being there as opposed to me not having one is a bit confusing, but I'll watch it through and take some notes a few times to make sure I understand. Thanks for the help guys! Time for an interview, I'll check back in this thread once I finish that up and sort out everything with this project of mine. I'm pretty excited though, definitely going to get a tuner along with all of this, probably a good thing to learn and way better than any "boxed" tune.

 

[BillBoost37]

Substitute the blower for your plastic upper manifold with different torque specs and it's the same exact procedure. Literally when he torques the SC down, you torque a plastic upper to 89inch lbs instead and you don't put on a second belt.

As for a cam. Once you pull the lifters, you're most of the way there. Remove the HB, timing cover and timing set, lower the side of the subframe and out slides the cam. In slides the new one. Line up the dots on the timing set and put the cover and balancer back on. The majority of the work is tearing the top apart and pulling the lifters.

If you go for the cam and wonder about other tools:
torx bit set, I think it's a 20-25 for the cam thrust plate
HB/steering wheel puller with 3 M6 x 1.00 x 75mm bolts or 1/4" fine pitch can be used
22mm socket for HB bolt (I think it's 22, might be 23)
Cam bolt is up there..I never picked up a mm socket for it, I use a 1 1/16".

If you do lifters, you're one timing cover gasket and new timing chain away from the cam swap.