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Help with Harmonic Balancer - I took it off and can't get it back on right.

Wraith888

Wraith888

New member
This weekend I was replacing my CPS for the 3rd time - I'm not sure why they keep failing, perhaps it's not the sensor and I'm just wasting my time, but the car is starting to rust out anyway, so not sure if it's worth spending too much more time on....

...so I put the HB back on, forgot it was keyed and gunned it with my impact wrench - and now I can barely get it so the HB bolt threads grip - I'm having a really hard time getting the HB to line up with the notch so it goes in all the way, and I don't recall it being that hard the other two times I did this. Did I mess something up by trying to tighten it down with my impact wrench when I didn't have the notch lined up properly? Any suggestions on how to get this fixed? I've gotten the HB back on twice, but the key wasn't lined up, so I used the puller I'm borrowing from Auto Zone to get it off again. Then back to square one...

It's a 2000 3.8 naturally aspirated Grand Prix, if that helps.

Thanks!
 


You probably pushed the key in. You will need to pull the balancer back off, try and fish the key out, probably replace it, and try again.
 
I'm at work now, so I don't have the car in front of me, but I thought the key was part of the crankshaft that stuck out, so I'm not sure I can fish anything out, unless I am misunderstanding something. Do you have a link to a diagram, pictures or video?

To be clear:
I see the crankshaft has a place for the HB to slide onto and there is a piece that would be the male part on the side. Then the HB looks just like this picture:

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af138/Poil336/The Grand Prix/L67/these.jpg

With the female notch that should line up with that tab. However, I'm having a hard time getting the HB to slide onto the crankshaft so I can get the HB bolt threads to start pulling the HB back on AND get the notch and key to line up.
 
Yep, it is a messed up key. Now I need to figure out how to get it out.

Any help is appreciated, I'm googling how I can remove this thing and now I'm a bit concerned.
 
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ive gotten them out with a thin small screw driver and tap it under the key with a hammer. the crank is pretty tough it can take it inside the grove there.

if the sheared off part of the key is no where to be seen it could be inside the timing cover, or it may have made it to the oil pan.
 
I found the sheared off piece, now I am wondering if I can file off the sides and there is enough to hold it..

.. Or can I actually get this key out of the crank shift and a new one in without removing anything else? I already destroyed the oil seal around it trying to get the damned key off.
 
looking through one of the threads linked here i found this pic. i think your taking the timing cover off and the cam gear then you'll get it right out.

Key.png
 
I was able to get this fixed. It turns out when I gunned it on without sliding it to fit the key, I had the HB spun 180 degress from what it should of. The key pushed against the metal on the inside of the HB and that created a bump that wouldn't let me slide the HB on properly. I was able to carefully file it down just a little bit and it slide on and now everything is good.

Thanks everyone for your help!
 


Yeah, the problem was that I had progressed from scared to do the job, to confident, then crossed the line to cocky and didn't double-check all the steps - like line up the key hole. Now I also noticed my outer ball joint needs to be replaced, so I think I'm going to tackle that in the next couple days.

Sadly, that might be one of the last repairs I do on this car, the rust is started to creep up everywhere, and I'm not sure I can fight it much longer.
 
If I may make a suggestion. Price out the balljoint + drilling out old rivets + swearing for hours at the old rivets that just don't seem to let go. And also price out a new control arm and realize it's much easier than just a balljoint.
 
Not sure why I said ball joint, I meant tie rod end. I haven't done repairs on tie rods or ball joints, so I'm learning the terminology as things fail on the car. My apologies for any confusion!

Thanks Bill.

So, for the tie rod ends, I was able to get the castle nut off last night. I am having a really hard time getting the jamb nut off though. I'm trying to tun it clockwise (righty-tighty) to get it to spin closer to the middle of the car and then I should be able to put the pickle fork in and pull the tie rod end off, right?

I tried putting a 13mm wrench on the part where it is square and a 7/8" on the nut and I couldn't break it free. I'm going to pickup a 22mm wrench today and try again. I've got it soaking in PB blaster and I'm considering picking up a torch to heat the nut up. Any other ideas are very welcome.
 
get the lock nut loose, all it has to do is crack free, you dont want to move it, its your mark where to put the new one.

so break the lock nut free, wire brush helps if the rod threads are rusty and a shot of lube.

now once the castle nut is off, turn the wheel your working on so the tie rod end is out side the wheel well, ( driver side turn the wheels right, pass side left) then the thin part of the knuckle where the tie rod is located is now pointed out, smack it with the hammer hard, it may take a few good shots, the tie rod will pop free. no pickle fork needed.

im 7 hours late to the party here, lets hope you made out ok......:th_thumbsup-wink:
 
Thanks, I ended up getting everything out for the outer tie rod, but the inner and outer were frozen together - I tried soaking it for days with PB Blaster and a propane torch and nothing worked, so I just cut the inner tie rod with a cutting wheel on my dremel, and replaced both the inner and outer tie rod.
 


ive gone after stuff with power tools before too lol sometimes your just at the end of your rope. sawsall and angle grinder are my go to tools for F THIS DAMN BOLT ACTION!
 
Glad you got the key out, I have seen someone do this and they damaged the timing gear with the woodruff key pressing up into the lower timing gear and causing a nice problem.
 
ls1adam84 said:
Glad you got the key out, I have seen someone do this and they damaged the timing gear with the woodruff key pressing up into the lower timing gear and causing a nice problem.
Click to expand...

You know, I was annoyed that I gunned the HB with the woodruff key in wrong and I was upset how much I goofed that up....but that sounds like a lot worse! So at least I'm not the only one, nor the worst issue here!

Seems like both the tie rods are good as is the CPS, now I just need to get my alignment setup and I should be good to drive this car into the ground. I live in MN, so the rust has taken hold so many places, I'm afraid it's not going to be worth fixing up much longer.
 
Yeah the key went in and completely messed up the lower timing gear, bad part was the tow truck driver went lock to lock on the steering wheel as well after he had been told the steering was disconnected which destroyed something in the steering as well.

I learned from watching that, I am used to LS cars where the crank pulley is pressed on.
 
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