Coolant issue, thinking head gaskets...

[GoldGTP]

Afternoon all...

As always, my fallback to my GTP has been this site and I appreciate all the feedback when needed...Thanks!

I recently decided to replace my LIM gaskets a few months back thinking I had a LIM leak around the corners where you apply RTV to the gaskets during install...

Old post -- http://www.grandprixforums.net/threads/96605-After-LIM-gaskets-repair-high-crankcase-vacuum

After having the vacuum issue finally resolved and the LIM RTV not leaking, it is appearing I am having a possible head gasket issue...

In the below video, I can repeat that procedure (top off, watch drop, top off, ...) continuously...

I have repeated the scenario for about 30 mins then I threw in the towel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9oRhGADLeg&sns=em

Is this a sure sign of a head gasket?

My oil looks fine and I changed it yesterday to look for milky oil...

Could the head gaskets be blown in a way that coolant escapes into the exhaust and then boils off? (Shouldn't boil if it is anti-freeze, right?)

I do see "drips" of liquid falling from each tail pipe...

My main goal from this discussion is one of a few questions (if you guys believe the above video is a gasket issue! possibly?)...

If I do the head gaskets and have the heads decked and checked and I buy new rockers, lifters, and push rods, does it matter in what order they are installed like when you reinstall the original ones? (I'm guessing not...)

It is appealing to see this repair doesn't involve timing, but the vehicle is pushing 175k miles, should the timing chain be inspected?

If I get a wild hair and pull the motor, should I drop it or pull it...I don't mind dropping it if i can raise the car high enough to get the guts out...Is this possible for the home mechanic with no lift? (Floor jacks and wood?)

Can I pull the entire engine/trans assembly out from up top with driveshafts removed?...Should the hood be removed?

I always thought to myself when it came time to do a major repair to this car that I would follow through with fixing it when it came time, so now I am weighing my options...

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[GoldGTP]

Sorry for the double post, but to reiterate about the video, I can repeat the procedure to no end! (top it off, watch it drop, top it off, watch it drop, ect ect)

 

[Scottydoggs]

i see bubbles in the rad. (head gasket failure sign) and is the coolant that hot enough to steam? or is the coolant cold in the rad there. then steam could be exhaust.

 

[GoldGTP]

It's 55 degrees here in Sac, but the coolant jumps to approx. 210 while monitoring temps with a bluetooth OBD tool...

It constantly fluctuates from 190ish to 210ish...

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Scottydoggs]

are you losing coolant with no visible leaks of coolant under the car? like you can put 2 inches worth of coolant in every morning?

and stick your finger in the coolant, see if its hot there. the temp you see is inside the engine, not the radiator.


190 to 210 and back is a normal t stat operation.

 

[GoldGTP]

I don't top off the car during the week although the temps seem off since the LIM fix...

These past few weeks I have been messing with it on the weekends (the temps seem different than I remember) and when I start troubleshooting, I can sit with the radiator cap off and continuously top off the fluid with no visible leaks anywhere...

I am seeing the highest temps at about 212 and down to 192...

Heater works fine and the temp gauge never really exceeds the halfway mark...(Gets real close though!)

On a side note, I can bleed the coolant and then next day, I can bleed it again...(Seems like always a bubble in the coolant)

Thanks again for the speedy replies...

 

[GoldGTP]

Again, sorry for the double post, but I recently purchased this --

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-75500-Combustion-Leak-Detector/dp/B0007ZDRUI

-- to check for gasket failure but the fluid never changes to yellow...

My hypothesis on that is if the head gasket is failed near the exhaust output, that is what is bubbling into the coolant and not necessarily a combustion chamber gasket failure (cylinder)...

Would that be an acceptable hypothesis?

And to clarify, yes, there are bubbles in the radiator/coolant when viewed with the cap off...

 

[Scottydoggs]

that tester should tell you if its o2 gasses in the rad.

could always try some blue devil. worked on my car. i was losing a few inches all the time. no leaks, blue devil stopped that issue.

i blew that engine up later on, pulled the heads, saw no signs of gasket failure, not sure wtf was wrong with that engine.

 

[GoldGTP]

Thanks for the replies...

I'll keep messin' with it, and if I find a solution, I'll post back...

Have a feeling I'll be pulling heads soon...

Thanks again.

 

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

You could always just smell the exhaust or taste the "liquid" falling from the tail pipes.

But at 55º outside, condensation is always going to happen and thus drip water on the ground.

 

[GoldGTP]

What I don't understand is where in the world is all the coolant going??

I can top it off and watch it being sucked down continuously to no end!!

There is no other logical explanation besides head gaskets, but where is the coolant escaping to?

Oil is fine and I don't see waterfalls out the exhaust, just a drip every 10 secs or so...

Plus the head leak tester appears to tell me no gasket leak?? Waste of $40?

Been fighting this for a few weeks now and can't put my finger on it....

Temps will rise, tstat opens, coolant drops, temps fall, I top it off and repeat...

Any more troubleshooting tips will be helpful...

 

[Burbman]

I would put my money on a bad LIM gasket job before head gasket. Especially when the test kit showed no combustion gasses in coolant and LIM had a confirmed prior problem

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[GoldGTP]

Thanks for the reply...

I did remove the LIM a few weeks ago to recheck the work I previously had done and the only thing I can say is the supercharger gasket was "wet" again...

Also, the manifold itself was pretty nasty where the coolant touches (blocked off ports?) and was pitted pretty badly...Maybe this is where the leak/air intrusion is?

I also see wetness along the rear most head along the back seam/drivers side, this is why I am leaning to possible head gasket issue...

I don't mind pulling the LIM again, gotten pretty quick at that now...I think if i do it again, i will use the later model SC plenum gasket as those two little yellow o-rings always gave me heartburn as to "if they moved or not" when putting the SC back in place...

Thanks again all, I'll post back if i get it fixed...

 

[Scottydoggs]

i bet hats your missing coolant.

take the sc back off, and rtv the two ports. you can rtv the blower back on if you dont feel like buying another gasket.

depending on how your ports are sealed, you can also use thread sealant if you drilled and tapped them, then add rtv on top for safety.

 

[Slick2500]

Thanks for the reply...

I did remove the LIM a few weeks ago to recheck the work I previously had done and the only thing I can say is the supercharger gasket was "wet" again...

Also, the manifold itself was pretty nasty where the coolant touches (blocked off ports?) and was pitted pretty badly...Maybe this is where the leak/air intrusion is?

I also see wetness along the rear most head along the back seam/drivers side, this is why I am leaning to possible head gasket issue...

I don't mind pulling the LIM again, gotten pretty quick at that now...I think if i do it again, i will use the later model SC plenum gasket as those two little yellow o-rings always gave me heartburn as to "if they moved or not" when putting the SC back in place...

Thanks again all, I'll post back if i get it fixed...

Sounds to me like the coolant is leaking out under the supercharger.

 

[GoldGTP]

Thanks again all for all the replies.

I am kind of curious about pressurizing my cooling system and I can't seem to find the correct tool to hook up to the radiator side.

I went to Harbor freight and picked up their pressurizing kit but none of the adapters work on this GM style radiator.

Anyone have some advice for the correct tool to pressure up this rad?

Maybe a part number??

I will probably pull the supercharger today and take a look if I cannot pressurize the cooling system.

Thanks again!

 

[GoldGTP]

i bet hats your missing coolant.

take the sc back off, and rtv the two ports. you can rtv the blower back on if you dont feel like buying another gasket.

depending on how your ports are sealed, you can also use thread sealant if you drilled and tapped them, then add rtv on top for safety.

Maybe I miss read this, are you suggesting to seal off the two ports completely underneath the supercharger?

I have read about this but wasn't sure of what the people were talking about...

Now I understand when the other threads say drill and tap them it appears some people thread a bolt into there, correct?

Thanks again

 

[Scottydoggs]

http://www.grandprixforums.net/threads/46931-How-to-Mod-a-LIM this is one way to do it. i thought you had said they were sealed off already.

i have solid mounts and the engine vibrated rather bad after i installed the new engine. just a few weeks back i did a ic install. when i pulled my blower off the 2 coolant ports were leaking, wet gasket on both sides, wet inside the lim and all. yet i was not losing coolant at all. nothing i could notice.

after the lim swap and ic install. theres really no vibration left. just whats there from the solid mounts.

 

[GoldGTP]

Thanks again for all the help...

I found the proper coolant pressure tester at autozone and plan to pump it up in a few...

If nothing pops out at me, next I'll pull the SC and take a look...

About the SC cooling ports, I said the 2 little yellow o-rings always felt like a gamble when re-mounting the SC...Always felt like they never stayed in place when setting the SC back on the manifold...

Appreciate it!

 

[GoldGTP]

Finally had some free time to pressure up the cooling system and it appears there is a leak (wont hold pressure)...

I did though, initially found some coolant leaks, although these leaks were not the final fix...

First leak found was the upper coolant hose-to-tstat housing...

Pressured up the system to 15 PSI and found the old stock snap style hose clamp was leaking...

After that one was swapped for a regular hose clamp, I pressured it up again finding the lower heater core hose clamp was leaking (also original style snap hose clamp) --

(The following video is after the clamp was loosened, although it was seen leaking before clamp loosening)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UFIsQ5idco

This one was tricky since the drip was falling onto the firewall "fabric/insulation" stuff and was never making it to the ground (soaking it up)...

So I swapped both heater core clamps with regular screw type.

The lower one slipped right off, while the upper one wouldn't budge...

So instead of forcing the hose off and possibly damaging the end of the heater core, I just slipped back the old clamp and opened up a new one around the hose and tightened it down (notice the old clamp!)

After tightening those clamps down and topping off the coolant and re-pressurizing the system, it appears there is still a leak going on...

I'm gonna take a guess and believe the leak is under the SC...

I might re-torque the SC down once more and pressure it up before I take off the SC again...

If I take the SC off, should I re-torque the LIM or will that break the RTV seal?

I'll keep the thread updated as I progress...

Thanks...