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Coilovers Vs Drop in Strut/Spring Combo

  • Thread starter Thread starter Max Cook
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Max Cook

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Okay so its almost spring and next week I am planning on doing my big suspension change. The stock struts arent totally dead but they're not too great anymore either. So I need new struts, so its upgrade time.

Either way im getting AGX struts and either way im going with ZZP. Agx because I want the best quality, and I'd rather do it right the first time on something that should last awhile. ZZP because they're literally a few miles down the road and I've known them since they were just a tiny shop off division ave.

The question is... To coilover or not to coilover?

I save about $250ish by going with the drop in spring combo and I save on labor for sure as well I'd imagine. With the ZZP Drop in spring combo you get SSC springs which from what I understand are some of the better ones.

I've heard coilovers are noisy, finicky, and problematic. My friend at ZZP already said he can get the stiffer spring rates for it so from what I understand that helps greatly. But what about the ride quality? Is it noticibly lower than SSC? Does the weight savings make any real difference? Are they a constant PITA?

I like the idea of doing it right the first time and not looking back with regret but coilovers are at the edge of my budget and im not sure if they're worth it? I like the idea of getting the perfect ride height but if they're going to need constant adjustment and constantly end up being an overall PITA I'm not sure I'm all that interested.

Anyone with experience with both the HT/ZZP Coilovers and SSC springs having input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Here is what my 4x4 car currently looks like (well its a photo from last year but the only one I could dig up at work atm with a somewhat side shot)
303218_1512829598123_1524469738_n.jpg
 


Max Cook said:
Either way im getting AGX struts and either way im going with ZZP. Agx because I want the best quality, and I'd rather do it right the first time on something that should last awhile. ZZP because they're literally a few miles down the road and I've known them since they were just a tiny shop off division ave.

AGX...meh, whatever. i don't think they are super awesome or worth the cost, but it's your car.

The question is... To coilover or not to coilover?

duh, the answer is yes.

I save about $250ish by going with the drop in spring combo and I save on labor for sure as well I'd imagine. With the ZZP Drop in spring combo you get SSC springs which from what I understand are some of the better ones.

I've heard coilovers are noisy, finicky, and problematic. My friend at ZZP already said he can get the stiffer spring rates for it so from what I understand that helps greatly. But what about the ride quality? Is it noticibly lower than SSC? Does the weight savings make any real difference? Are they a constant PITA?

a) coilovers are going to ride more stiff, but less harsh. it's their nature (higher spring rates).
b) coilovers arent any noisier than stock.
c) they are height adjustable, but you lose strut travel as you lower. you pick your height and how much you want to ride on the bump stops.
d) they go A LOT lower than SSC if you want.
e) they'll handle worlds better than any spring/strut combo you can put together. end of story.

I like the idea of doing it right the first time and not looking back with regret but coilovers are at the edge of my budget and im not sure if they're worth it? I like the idea of getting the perfect ride height but if they're going to need constant adjustment and constantly end up being an overall PITA I'm not sure I'm all that interested.

who said you'd have to constantly adjust them? whoever said that is stupid.
Click to expand...

see my responses to what you got going on above...
 
Thanks for the quick reply Bio, I did read your sticky btw. So what would you say is a healthy comprimise between slammed and good ride quality when it comes to amount lowered and spring rates?

From what you're saying I kind of gather that if I drop the same heigh as SSC springs with coilovers they'll be better ride quality than SSCs and handle a lot better, but if I go too low its going to ride really rough and handling will go out the window. I guess I dont really want to totally slam the car because I dont want to hit a pothole and completely frick my car up and have horrible ride quality and handling.

Basically i'd like to lower it as far as possible while maintaining decent ride quality (aka stiffish/sporty is fine just not to the absolute max), optimum handling improvement, and not being at serious risk of a small bump screwing up my car. I've got 18" rims and the riken raptor tires. What would you estimate would be my best choice for spring rate and amount lowered given what im looking for?

Also other than AGX keeping their information top secret why don't you like them? What is wrong with the AGX struts? And what do you usally set your dampening to on them?
 
Bio248 said:
e) they'll handle worlds better than any spring/strut combo you can put together. end of story.**
Click to expand...

i'll take this line and add a disclaimer to it.

** if you have the car corner weighted (can't do that without coilovers), your alignment is where it should be (NOT STOCK), and your other suspension/wheels/tires are all up to the task.
 
I wouldn't say that coilovers for the Prix would ride better than a strut/spring combo.

Handling would be better...it's be a more predictable ride...but with the stiffer springs, you're going to feel the road more. I drove down I94/131 last fall...drove down plenty of Michigan roads...and I'm about an inch off the ground...was it tolerable? Sure. Would I daily a car with coilovers up there...meh, probably not.

Hell I don't even know why I'm daily'n this car here in KC...our roads are total crap.
 
and to reply to your second post that i didnt see right away...

it sounds like you want coilovers with the way you're talking. you can go lower than SSC and still have the car handling how you want. i'm not sure which spring rates work well since i haven't tested them, but if you don't go really low i don't see why the "stock" spring rates wouldn't be fine for you. any more rate and you'll be upset with the ride quality.

and i don't like AGX because of their qualities. an adjustable strut is so you can adjust it to the spring rate that you put on it, making it a useful strut for a wider application of spring rates. it's not setup well for one spring rate and the adjustment is there so you as the owner can dial them in as you see fit. if you can figure out a way to get a set of struts valves specifically for the springs you are going to run you'll be worlds ahead of the AGX, but it may end up costing you more in the end. i also think the adjustability is laughable. i would settle with GR2 and be happy with them.
 


Yeah michigan roads do suck a lot. I don't drive it in the winter. I usually daily it in the spring/summer/fall though unless its a rainy day or we're going for groceries etc. My commute to work takes all of about 5-8 minutes though.

So I'm fine with a stiff sporty feel, I just dont want to feel like someones just stabbed me in the arse everytime I hit a small bump and I dont want to be checking my fenders everytime that happens either.

So from what you're saying the 350/275 would be fine for spring rate if im not slamming it but going lower than SSCs? Id hate to buy the wrong springs for the job.

Also im guessing it would probably be a good idea to get an alignment after this regardless?
 
Would It still be better handling than stock and look lowered and good if I just went with the AGX/SSC combo? I'm thinking with the money saved I could get a GMPP Rear Sway Bar as well, which apparently makes a massive difference. I think with coilovers im going to end up over budget in the end and annoyed with my spring rate choice or something. Where as SSC/AGX its just drop in and go..
 
Max Cook said:
Hmm... Do I need shortened dogbones too btw?
Click to expand...

maybe, i've had some conflicting information bouncing around in my head on this stuff for a while. i feel it has a lot to do with axle and motor mount wear than the actual suspension geometry, but that's still yet to be seen. spacers for the motor/trans mounts are a better option than shortened bones, though.

Max Cook said:
Would It still be better handling than stock and look lowered and good if I just went with the AGX/SSC combo? I'm thinking with the money saved I could get a GMPP Rear Sway Bar as well, which apparently makes a massive difference. I think with coilovers im going to end up over budget in the end and annoyed with my spring rate choice or something. Where as SSC/AGX its just drop in and go..
Click to expand...

it'll handle better and be lowered on SSC for sure (in comparison to stock). i'd say that the rear sway bar would make more of a difference than the front because it'll promote rotation of the rear under hard cornering whereas the front is always going to plow...
 


man im just so torn on this lol. I kinda wanna just get the agx/ssc combo since itll be so much easier/safer and leave much more funds available for things and that sway upgrade. But I really dont want to end up regretting not going with coilovers later on.
 
if you like low cars, don't even think about a spring/strut setup when you can do coilovers. it's worth it in the end to be part of the sanitation department, cleaning up the streets with your bumper.
 


Heads up on AGX, they'll wear out pretty quick.

Bio248 said:
it'll handle better and be lowered on SSC for sure (in comparison to stock). i'd say that the rear sway bar would make more of a difference than the front because it'll promote rotation of the rear under hard cornering whereas the front is always going to plow...
Click to expand...

Honestly after trying every part on a W body short of lateral links and coilovers, I'd have to rate the front bar as the #1 improvement in handling. It helps control all of that weight out front.

Next was bilstein HD/vogtland up front.

Next was trailing arms, followed by rear sway (ADDCO bar, 22mm solid)/bilstein HD/vogtlands, with STB's in dead last. And by dead last I mean basically worthless with all of those other components.

Arguably, I didn't notice much difference with the rear struts/springs/sway. The rear end still had way too much play on high speed sweepers. That's not to say it didn't help, it surely made a difference, but after you consider springs were $150, struts $600, sway $200. Probably would have been better off buying the BMR rear end link kit.

All depends what you're after. With all of that done, you could feel every little bump in the road. However the ride wasn't uncomfortable. Firm but smooth, the bilstein way.

Oh and I did all of this on 225/60R16. Enough tire to smooth out the bumps, yet still competent enough to provide a solid enough steering feel given the obvious heavy front end. Driven cars with 1" sidewalls, interesting, but not for a daily.
 
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I'm on agx's and ssc's. I love them. The ride is great on normal roads, on bumpy roads, it's noticeablely stiffer than stock. It handles worlds better than stock. I also have them set On the stiffest setting, which does actually feel different. I'd recommend them. But I've never had coilovers...
 
I have the ZZP coilovers with AGX struts, and i love them, i have them set decently low and i still have a decent ride quality.
Pic of the ride height im at
860959_359008524215040_896147350_o.jpg
 
thanks for the comments guys. After seeing that pic killer It makes me want to decide on coilovers again lol. Also Matt what do you mean by they'll wear out quick. I thought the AGXs held up the longest comparitively when lowered? Whats quick? 20k miles? 40k? 80k?
Also from the other sticky about upgrading suspension they said the rear sway was the biggest upgrade, and now matt is saying it didnt do much. I was considering doing rear sway + trailing arms + ssc/agx instead of the coilovers but once again im unsure lol.

Will AGXs wear out faster on coilovers than springs?
 
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