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Ahh alignment issues. what is wrong here?

04CompG

04CompG

New member
Hey everyone. Alright i got the car an alignment last week. had to get the front camber bolts in. car rides and handles A LOT better. Although it is still seeing a few symptoms that I'm trying to tackle here. At 70+ mph the car seems to "walk" from side-to-side. Its like the car will shift 6 inches to the right then 6 inches to the left. You kind of have to fight it a little bit to keep the car in a straight line. It was twice as worse before the alignment. It feels like a gust of wind hits the left side of the car then hits the right side.

I'm going to call today to get it rechecked. They alignment included a visual supsension check and they told me nothing came up. The tie-rods checked out fine also. Is there a suspension component that I should be specifically checking that would cause this kind of problem if the component was bad??

I also got my tires rotated and balanced.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 


Broken sway bar? Sometimes they just crack in half. I have removed mine from my car alltogether and have seen no difference in handling.


Just an idea.
 
This is for your specific car. This is what the GM techs use to find possible solutions to similiar problems like you are having. This is for poor directional stability and vehicle leads/pulls. I did not see any other info that might pertain to this.



It's a lot of info but if none of this solves it I'm not sure anyone can help you.









Poor Directional Stability
Step
Action
Yes
No

DEFINITION: Driver is unable to maintain consistent, predictable vehicle driving control in any direction.

1
Did you review the General Description and perform the necessary inspections?
Go to Step 2
Go to Symptoms - Suspension General Diagnosis

2
Verify that the directional stability is poor.

Does the system operate normally?
System OK
Go to Step 3

3
Ensure that the tires are all the same size, make, and adequate tread depth.
Repair as necessary.
Ensure that all of the tires are inflated to the correct pressure. Refer to Tire Inflation Pressure Specifications in Maintenance and Lubrication.
Does the vehicle still exhibit poor directional stability?
Go to Step 4
System OK

4
Inspect the stabilizer shaft, links, and insulators for wear or damage.
Replace as necessary. Refer to the following:
Stabilizer Shaft Replacement in Front Suspension
Stabilizer Shaft Link Replacement in Front Suspension
Stabilizer Shaft Insulator Replacement in Front Suspension
Does the vehicle still exhibit poor directional stability?
Go to Step 5
System OK

5
Inspect the lower control arms, ball joints and tie rods for wear or damage.
Repair as necessary. Refer to the following:
Lower Control Arm Replacement in Front Suspension
Lower Ball Joint Replacement in Front Suspension
Tie Rod End Replacement - Outer in Power Steering System
Does the vehicle still exhibit poor directional stability?
Go to Step 6
System OK

6
Inspect the wheel bearings/hubs for looseness or excessive lateral runout. Refer to Wheel Bearings Diagnosis .

Does the vehicle still exhibit poor directional stability?
Go to Step 7
System OK

7
Inspect the vehicle trim height. Refer to Trim Height Inspection Procedure .
Repair as necessary.
Does the vehicle still exhibit poor directional stability?
Go to Step 8
System OK

8
Inspect and adjust the wheel alignment as necessary. Refer to Measuring Wheel Alignment in Wheel Alignment.

Does the vehicle still exhibit poor directional stability?
Go to Step 9
System OK

9
Inspect the steering gear and steering column for looseness. Refer to Power Steering System Test Procedure in Power Steering System.
Repair as necessary.
Did you complete the repair?
Go to Step 10
--

10
Operate the vehicle in order to verify the repair.

Did you correct the condition?
System OK
Go to Step 3













Vehicle Leads/Pulls
Step
Action
Yes
No

DEFINITION: At a constant highway speed on a typical straight road, lead/pull is the amount of effort required at the steering wheel to maintain the vehicle's straight path.

1
Did you review the General Description and perform the visual/physical inspections?
Go to Step 2
Go to Symptoms - Suspension General Diagnosis

2
Road test the vehicle in order to verify the complaint.

Does the vehicle operate normally?
System OK
Go to Step 3

3
Inspect the tire/wheel assemblies for:

Correct tire pressure--Refer to the tire placard.
Correct tire size--Refer to the tire placard.
Abnormal tire wear or damage
Did you find and correct the condition?
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 4

4
Perform the Radial Tire Lead/Pull Correction in Tires and Wheels.

Did you find and correct the condition?
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 5

5
Inspect and correct/adjust the suspension and steering systems for:

Vehicle trim height--Refer to Trim Height Specifications .
Excessively worn, loose, or damaged components
Did you find and correct the condition?
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 6

6
Inspect the brake system for brake drag. With the vehicle suspended on a hoist, brake drag can be identified by rotating each wheel several times and observing whether more force is need to rotate the left wheel or the right wheel. Refer to Diagnostic Starting Point - Disc Brakes in Disc Brakes.

Did you find and correct the condition?
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 7

7
Inspect the wheel alignment and adjust as necessary. Refer to Measuring Wheel Alignment in Wheel Alignment.

Did you correct the condition?
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 8

8
Inspect the steering gear for unequal effort. The vehicle must be suspended on a hoist, the engine running, and the transmission in park or neutral. Grasp the tire assembly and manually simulate a turn from the left of center and the right of center observing whether more force is needed to turn to the left or to the right. If this condition exists replace the steering gear.

Did you correct the condition?
System OK
Go to Step 3

9
Operate the vehicle in order to verify the repair.

Did you correct the condition?
System OK
Go to Step 3
 
Thanks a lot for the info man. I'm printing it at out and will give it to the shop when they recheck my alignment this week. It has to be something. My cars already had 2 alignments in 2 weeks. First I got everything corrected but the camber. Then put in the camber bolts and went back and got it realigned again. The alignment machine even got serviced and calibrated inbetween my 2 alignments. Its got to be something out of the ordinary. Sometimes I could even feel the left tire seem to move while I was trying to keep the car straight. then the car would pitch to the right. It would pitch right after i felt that weird sensation with the wheel. Like the left wheel would turn to the right slightly while the right wheel would stay straight. causing the car to drag to the right. That would cause me to go at least 2 feet over. I could feel the extra friction from the tire on the floorboards. It happened about 10 times I would say on my 3 hour drive last night.

When that wasnt happening it was just hard to keep the car straight while going 70+. I almost always had to have 2 hands on the steering wheel. Not as violent as before the alignments but the problem is still there...
 


04CompG said:
Thanks a lot for the info man. I'm printing it at out and will give it to the shop when they recheck my alignment this week. It has to be something. My cars already had 2 alignments in 2 weeks. First I got everything corrected but the camber. Then put in the camber bolts and went back and got it realigned again. The alignment machine even got serviced and calibrated inbetween my 2 alignments. Its got to be something out of the ordinary. Sometimes I could even feel the left tire seem to move while I was trying to keep the car straight. then the car would pitch to the right. It would pitch right after i felt that weird sensation with the wheel. Like the left wheel would turn to the right slightly while the right wheel would stay straight. causing the car to drag to the right. That would cause me to go at least 2 feet over. I could feel the extra friction from the tire on the floorboards. It happened about 10 times I would say on my 3 hour drive last night.

When that wasnt happening it was just hard to keep the car straight while going 70+. I almost always had to have 2 hands on the steering wheel. Not as violent as before the alignments but the problem is still there...
Click to expand...




Not a problem glad I could help. Hope you get it fixed soon. Let us know what it is.
 
Yeah post back if you figure out what it is. I know what you mean in your description of it feeling like the wind is blowing the car back and forth at highway speeds of 70+ MPH. It is almost like the car is in small ruts and it is having a train effect. If you have ever seen under a train when it is moving it moves back and forth just a little from flange to flange. A guy at work told me it could be the fact that alot of semi trucks travel the highway and grove out the surface of the road making a small depression where the wheels are traveling. I have good ball joints, tie rod ends are new, and the sway bar is a new GMPP sway bar. I recently found out my lower control arm front bushing has seperated, but I dont think that is it. That just causes a clunk when turning right sometimes. I am thinking it has something to do with the steering gear
 
sounds like me.. i got so angry i told my teacher in school this is it! im aligning my car on the machine "he wouldnt let me" got her done and shes a beauty now lol =]
 
I'm calling the alignment shop tomorrow to see if i can get in right after work at 5:30 like usual. i got my car re-aligned my car last thursday and drove to indy that weekend. its better but it still sways. this is weird. the cars actual handling is getting a little better though. it feels like it doesnt sway as much on turns. so after 2 alignments in 2 weeks its improved everytime but i still cant keep my car straight for more than 2 seconds at highway speeds.
 


I found this while doing a search for something else, but I think I can help. My vote is for ball joints. The guys doing alignments are used to newer cars and seldom check for balljoint wear unless they can't align the car at all.

Bad joints give the wandering sensation, and they also will cause tire wear at the very inside edge of the tire, that's difficult to see unless you turn the steering wheel a lot to examine the tires.

I've had to do the ball joints on two of my cars recently for just these symptoms.

Just my opinion, but it's fairly easy and inexpensive to remove the lower control arms and have a machine shop remove the big rivets holding in the balljoints, vs. doing it yourself. I was charged $12 per arm for removing the rivets, which is a lot let hassle that doing the drilling yourself.
 
04CompG said:
I'm calling the alignment shop tomorrow to see if i can get in right after work at 5:30 like usual. i got my car re-aligned my car last thursday and drove to indy that weekend. its better but it still sways. this is weird. the cars actual handling is getting a little better though. it feels like it doesnt sway as much on turns. so after 2 alignments in 2 weeks its improved everytime but i still cant keep my car straight for more than 2 seconds at highway speeds.
Click to expand...

Did you ever resolve your instability problem? I too have the same thing going on in my 2003 GP.

Thanks!
 
The shop that was giving me alighnments didn't know what they were doing. Their machine was reading totally different numbers than the tire shop that was across the street from them. I also needed rear camber bolts put in because my car was suffering "bump steer" because the car would shift to the side when it hit a big enough bump. Also my ball joints were bad, which actually got replaced under warranty just 2 weeks ago.

So my issue was a combination of 3 things:

-got a bad alignment
- needed rear camber bolts
- ball joints were bad
 
my camber was way off and they couldn't adjust it for enough over into the recommended range. so i had to get the camber bolts too allow them to do that. i cost 30$ to get the bolts installed and the bolts were freaking $20 at ricerzone.
 


First off I've done more alignments than most people do oil changes. They should ALWAYS check front and rear end for bad parts before aligning they necer should have aligned it if its moving. The ball joint moves the tire how could you know if the cam bolt was needed (see what I'm saying). Rear cam bolts are more common than you think because camber starts to go negative or time from the springs starting to sag. Moog number K5330 or a 14 mm cam bolt. Ironically if you were worried about handling the negative camber in the rear is perferred for better cornering. I think your alignment techs were just being lazy.
 
I had gotten about 4 alighnments in a period of 6 months because i could feel that it was never right, not to mention the bump steer. anyway, i eventually had them print out the measurements that their machine was reading for my car (toe, camber). I took that sheet and went down the road to Big0tires and had them scan the car and print out the sheet. Almost every number was different when comparing the 2 sheets!

So i got my alignment done at Big0 and my car was wayyyy better. No more bump steer too. I went back and told Firestone everything and they actually refunded me for the alighnment i had paid for at BigO. I had bought the Firestone alighnment package for $150 which give you unlimited alignments for the life of the vehicle.

Needless to say I haven't been back to that Firestone but I did notice that they got an entirely new alighnemnt machine. Their last one looked like it was 20 years old.

When Big0 did my car they told me they barely got the rear camber to the appropriate range and that I should look into getting rear camber bolts eventually. They also did tell me I had a tiny bit of slack in one of the front wheel bearings.

Just recently I had noticed the rear bump steer was every so slightly coming back so I took the car into a buddy of mine who is a mechanic at a dealer. He put in the rear camber bolts for me and even got both front wheel bearings replaced for me under warranty even though only one of them was a little worn (same one Big0 told me). Got an alighnment after that and everything seems to be perfect now.
 
My 03 GP was bump steering in the rear so badly that it was hard to control on icey roads. It felt like it was constantly fishtailing. This was after new Michelin tires, new front wheel bearings and an alignment from a reputable shop. Still felt like the rear end was hopping all over the place.

After traveling to work on an icey interstate, I took it to another reputable shop and they installed the eccentric camber bolts and aligned it. It drives like new again!

Just goes to show that just because you had something done, doesn't mean it's right!

Thanks for the replies on this topic!:)
 
If you have ruled out a tire issue, I would suggest having it aligned at a different alignment shop. I went through similar issues until I went to another shop. That's when I got great results!
 
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