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A question of comfort

Sinnoth

Sinnoth

New member
I've had my 2000 GTP for about 4 years now. It had 116,000mi when I bought it and I'm up to 157,000 now. The suspension has been crap since day one, most likely from poor maintenance and having the balls beat out of it before I owned it. Last fall I had my buddy's shop replace both front struts with KYB GR2's, both front wheel bearings, tie rods, spindles and ball joints. Now the rear is crap and in need of replacement. I've decided to do the rest of the work myself. I've read the sticky thread on Lowering thoroughly, but I still have a few questions.

-Regarding comfort, how do you rank the Vogtland springs vs SSC?

-Again regarding comfort, how would you rank the GR2's vs soft settings on AGX's?

-Presuming I didn't drop the thing to the ground, how comfy could I make the coil-over package ZZP is selling?

I'm also curious if ZZP's claim that SSC springs give an equal height for front and rear is true, and is this also true of Vogtland springs? I know the SSC springs will be a bit lower, and either height is fine for my needs right now. I'd prefer the adjustable strength of AGX's or Coil-Overs, but daily driver is this cars main purpose and I want to ensure I'm happy. If you guys all feel that GR2's are the most comfortable riding strut, I will probably use them.

Since we all have different tastes and preference on what is actually considered "comfort" I'll give a reference. If anyone's been in the latest gen Malibu's, I think that's a really nice ride quality and I'd love to get close to that if at all possible. On the flip side, I have Intrax lowering springs and Bilstien shocks on my 88 monte carlo ss and I think that rides perfectly fine.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
 


Bio- Thats the thread I've been reading most, although I scanned half a dozen others to gain more information as well. I posted this because there is more talk about handling and ride height than ride quality. At your re-mentioning it, I've actually read all the posts instead of just your initial descriptions and found more of what I was looking for, thank you.

If I went coil-over I would absolutely go with AGX, and as for height I doubt I'd go more than a medium drop with them unless I brought it a road course or autocrossing. Based on what you've just told me and what GeddyLee spoke of in your sticky thread, I'm going to price out AGX struts and Vogtland springs and play with front/rear strut adjustments until I find my happy place :)

I know a coil-over + AGX setup can be made to handle the best, but do you think that setup can also be adjusted to be even more comfortable than a Vogtland + AGX setup?
 
linear springs that come on coilovers are worse for ride quality than progressive springs that are usually what lowering springs are.
 
Why do you going to spend $1000+ on coil overs when your cars stock?
not wider low pro tires, no sway bars, STB etc.

Coil overs are not made for comforts, their made for corners not taking grandma to church.

You might get away with it with other cars, but not matter springs you use. Lowering grand prix will result in a harsher ride weather using AGX or GR2s
 


Bio248 said:
linear springs that come on coilovers are worse for ride quality than progressive springs that are usually what lowering springs are.
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Thank you Bio, I was not aware the coil-overs were linear. I am no longer considering them for this car.


Ridin ON Chrome said:
Why do you going to spend $1000+ on coil overs when your cars stock?
not wider low pro tires, no sway bars, STB etc.

Coil overs are not made for comforts, their made for corners not taking grandma to church.

You might get away with it with other cars, but not matter springs you use. Lowering grand prix will result in a harsher ride weather using AGX or GR2s
Click to expand...

When you add up the cost SSCs and AGXs, plus all the various hardware that should go with them, it's almost as much as the coil overs anyway. That is why I was willing to consider them. Based on what I'm reading I will not go with the coil overs, but it was worth asking to be certain. As soon as the suspension package is in, I will be buying four new tires. I am waiting on them until I fix the suspension so I can align the front and rear wheels and not ruin the new tires early. I'd like to hear what you guys suggest for good all-weather tires, but I'll post that in the proper section later.

I'm staying with the stock GTP rims for now because winter is here and it will just ruin a new set anyway. What do you mean about no sway bars and STB? Wouldn't eliminating the sway bar kill my handling?

DrunkietheBear said:
Best option IMO would be Bilsteins with Vogtland.
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I've put Bilsteins on half a dozen cars I've had, and they have always served me well. I never saw anyone mention them for the grand prix before though. How do you like them? Has anyone else here tried them, how do you like them for comfort and handling vs AGXs?
 
Sinnoth said:
I'm staying with the stock GTP rims for now because winter is here and it will just ruin a new set anyway. What do you mean about no sway bars and STB? Wouldn't eliminating the sway bar kill my handling?
Click to expand...

he meant that you should look into a few other things, such as sway bars, strut tower bars, and trailing arms to help with your handling before you jump to a coilover setup.
 
Ahhh, gotcha. I've thought about upgrading the rear sway bar, and maybe a tower brace. First I want to get the main suspension back in good repair and see how it handles from there. I won't need much in the way of handling over the winter anyway so I may as well save money for other projects for the time being.
 
I don't have Bilstein's. Best option for the Bilsteain's is to find them used from a GXP.

I don't like any of KYB's stuff, just a personal notation.
 


Get the GMPP kit. It' makes a world of difference, even with my 80k stock springs/struts it so much better than it was without.

I am planning a lowering setup as well and like you value the ride quality just slightly more than the handling aspects. I think I'm going to do an AGX with Vogtland combo. I'd like to do SSC or Eibach for the drop but I've heard ride is a noticeably more harsh than Vogtland. Face it, its only a 1/2" difference anyway. I am planning on the AGX over the GR2 as I've heard from several different people that the GR2 don't take well to a drop and have a short life..40k ish. I figure for the $200 difference over that kind of mileage it's a no brainer to build some adjustability into the setup. I know that the GR2 has the same lifetime warranty but I don't really want to pull the car off the road, tear apart a strut to warranty it, get it replaced, re assemble and install. Seems like too much work for the cost difference.
 
SSC and eibach cannot be compares when talking about amount of lowering and ride quality. SSC dont lower as much, but ride more harsh. eibach lower more, but dont ride as bad.
 
I DD my setup and am very happy with it compared to stock. No complaints from the family after the change either. I set my AGX's at 2 all around.
 
matt5112 said:
I was gonna say, go drive a GXP.

They all have bilstein shocks.
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Bring me a GXP and I'll gladly take it for a spin :)

Bio248 said:
SSC and eibach cannot be compares when talking about amount of lowering and ride quality. SSC dont lower as much, but ride more harsh. eibach lower more, but dont ride as bad.
Click to expand...

This is the first I've heard about Eibachs riding well. I had always assumed they would ride harsher from the larger drop. Have you run them before? How would you (or would you at all) compare the Eibachs to Vogtlands?

Silver GTP said:
I DD my setup and am very happy with it compared to stock. No complaints from the family after the change either. I set my AGX's at 2 all around.
Click to expand...

So you're already running the setup I'm most strongly leaning towards, AND you live here in MASS so you have the same crap roads I do. You're the man I've needed to hear from! Whats your experience with bounciness with three passengers? Does the Vogtlands/AGX combo sag like stock does with a full car?
 


Sinnoth said:
This is the first I've heard about Eibachs riding well. I had always assumed they would ride harsher from the larger drop. Have you run them before? How would you (or would you at all) compare the Eibachs to Vogtlands?
Click to expand...

i had eibach spring on my car and a friend has SSC spring on his car. the SSC have a higher spring rate than the eibach springs so they will ride more harsh, but help handling more than just lowering the center of gravity like the eibachs do. the eibach springs are alittle softer, but they lower more. the reason they ride harder is because a lot of people have no clue how to properly trim bump stops so they are constantly riding on them.

vogtland is the original manufacturer of the GMPP springs that were on the GMPP suspension that were sold for a short stint of time. they lower the car the least out of all springs and will keep the ride quality nearly intact. however, with all lowering springs you have to assume that the ride quality will go down.

hope the helps.
 
Bio248 said:
i had eibach spring on my car and a friend has SSC spring on his car. the SSC have a higher spring rate than the eibach springs so they will ride more harsh, but help handling more than just lowering the center of gravity like the eibachs do. the eibach springs are alittle softer, but they lower more. the reason they ride harder is because a lot of people have no clue how to properly trim bump stops so they are constantly riding on them.

vogtland is the original manufacturer of the GMPP springs that were on the GMPP suspension that were sold for a short stint of time. they lower the car the least out of all springs and will keep the ride quality nearly intact. however, with all lowering springs you have to assume that the ride quality will go down.

hope the helps.
Click to expand...

Do you recommend trimming the bump stops when using Vogtlands as well?
 
Sinnoth said:
So you're already running the setup I'm most strongly leaning towards, AND you live here in MASS so you have the same crap roads I do. You're the man I've needed to hear from! Whats your experience with bounciness with three passengers? Does the Vogtlands/AGX combo sag like stock does with a full car?
Click to expand...

I've had 5 people in the car since I did the suspension over and have not noticed any problems with bouncing. I can't comment on the sag since I was driving and couldn't see the outside, but it didn't feel excessive. With the spring rate being higher than the stock springs, logic says it would not sag as much since the spring gets stiffer faster. If you're up for a roadtrip to western mass, I'll let you take it for a drive so you'll know exactly what it feels like before you spend the money.
 
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