PWNED
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Is there a how too on how to start tweaking this table? I am confused considering the map goes a lot higher than 100 in the scans unless something is not set up correctly.
AFR and Timing Tuning (02 Regal GS 223k!!!)
- Thread starter PWNED
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Is there a how too on how to start tweaking this table? I am confused considering the map goes a lot higher than 100 in the scans unless something is not set up correctly.
PWNED
New member
To add to my confusion at 1:30am
With these tables being 0'ed out does this mean I am never truly adding fuel in PE mode??
My actual files are here on the hpt forum as here will not let me post.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?45403-AFR-and-Timing-Tuning-(02-Regal-GS-223k!!!)
With these tables being 0'ed out does this mean I am never truly adding fuel in PE mode??
My actual files are here on the hpt forum as here will not let me post.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?45403-AFR-and-Timing-Tuning-(02-Regal-GS-223k!!!)
Fivefingerdeathpunch
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Because you set the PE table to 11.5 and zero'd out the others, it will not add anymore fuel based on time in PE mode.
Though I've seen go slighty richer on its own by a little bit with those tables zero'd.
If you want to add fuel back, just pick the rpm range and time frame and add small amounts. Your numbers will add to the current commanded AFR, so do like .100 to .900 to get it down into the 10's.
Though I've seen go slighty richer on its own by a little bit with those tables zero'd.
If you want to add fuel back, just pick the rpm range and time frame and add small amounts. Your numbers will add to the current commanded AFR, so do like .100 to .900 to get it down into the 10's.
PWNED
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I see what you mean. I basically "hacked" the maf table to compensate for what I have 0'ed out. With what you stated then is PE even functional now?
Trying to understand these tables is a bit confusing as for a v8 they have a PE vs RPM which is a super easy layout to modify unlike our cars.
These are the stock files below. With a little reading in the hpt help I am still a bit confused.
--Power Enrich Fuel Adder vs. Throttle Position Sensor-- This table adds to the base AFR in relation to throttle position. It is generally used to lean the fuel at smaller throttle settings.
--Power Enrich Fuel Adder vs. RPM vs. Time-- This table adds to the base AFR in relation to RPM and time in PE mode. It is used to provide additional RPM and time based enrichment and is similar to the PE vs RPM table on V8 engines, but with an additional time component. Remember, this value adds to the Base PE AFR so positive numbers here are leaner and negative numbers are richer.
Enrichment Rate: This is the rate at which Fuel is added to reach the desired enrichment value. The smaller this value is, the slower the VCM will reach the desired PE AFR. For instance if your non pe commanded EQ ratio is 1.0 and your pe commanded EQ ratio is 1.300 and your enrichment rate is set to .3 it would take 1 step ~10ms for most pcms to reach full PE.
In stock form we have a commanded afr of 12.4 at operating temp which is lean. Now in the Fuel Adder vs. TPS we have 0 after 70% so it does not lean anything out. What if I left the stock values up to 15 tps %, will this net me better mpg's at all? Should I really be touching this area at all? Next we have the Power Enrich Fuel Adder vs. RPM vs. Time. This is super confusing due to the layout and not understanding the numbers. We can all agree that from the factory the cars run rich for safety. With that being in mind it is right around 10.8 afr at wot I would guess. We have that 12.4 commanded afr and according to the chart a -1.000 to -3.000 in the 5600-6400rpm to make things richer. Do these numbers have an actual value meaning? How will I know exactly which area to have a + or - number in the correct column according to seconds? I would like to put my stock maf back in with table, leave it alone and tune this table instead. Will fuel trims be affected by this table when not in PE? Will some maf tweaking still need to be done in the lower half to compensate?
darkhorizon
New member
LQ4 mafs are pretty stupid for people looking for more headroom....
Making the narrowband happy is what you are tuning... If you have a car in closed loop you are ALWAYS tuning the narrowband, not the motor to a wideband, as the narrowband will just make changes it feels like and "ruins" your "tune" you did. I run open loop mode exclusively for this reason.
no, lol
darkhorizon
New member
No. Your PE mode is enabled around 30% (look for the pe enable table vs tps). When PE is enabled by the TPS it sets your commanded afr from cruising afrs to your commanded coolant temp value. Scanning your commanded AFR is key to understand this relationship.
Treat that table like it has 1 value in it... The ramp part of it is far to complicated and specific to tune with crude tools that we have.. and really its just based on a random mathematical value anyway. Adjust the whole table up and down to satisfy the reports of the narrowband (If the trims generally suggest rich, remove fuel, if the trims generally suggest lean add fuel). You can get a good feel for what the narrowband is seeing just by staring at it while driving around or looking at the tune to see "about what it is" Guessing is fine in this practice, it wont ever be perfect. Trims read back in "percentage off" so you can take the raw number you come up with and adjust the IFR by that value.
Our tables work way better. Try not to look at is as a "vs time table"... Remove the time functionality and use it as a RPM table adding some fuel around shift points, etc. The PE vs Time table is not used by many many tuners because its really just designed for specific tweaks.
I have to run to work, but basically you are off track on most things in that post.... Go scan your commanded AFR to understand things better.
Yes fuel trims will "lock in" to PE mode... Its why closed loop sucks and throwing numbers at your IFR value is the best way to get the "lock in" numbers tolerable.
Get a stock LQ4 maf table in there and stop fiddling with the stock maf file. Ive had great luck with not touching those tables in all the LQ4 cars.
PWNED
New member
Open loop is the initial startup of the vehicle (does not read 02s) until it is warmed up (closed loop) then will make changes to what it sees. Correct?
By unplugging that rear 02 sensor in the manifold the car has no clue what is going on (where I placed my wideband) . It will then just read off the maf/map values in the pcm. This forces it in (open loop) correct? So I did that part of the wideband tuning correctly then?
Vs when I had my wideband in the crossover the rear manifold 02 was still fully functional. Which was a big no no, correct?
By unplugging that rear 02 sensor in the manifold the car has no clue what is going on (where I placed my wideband) . It will then just read off the maf/map values in the pcm. This forces it in (open loop) correct? So I did that part of the wideband tuning correctly then?
Vs when I had my wideband in the crossover the rear manifold 02 was still fully functional. Which was a big no no, correct?
darkhorizon
New member
or by unplugging the narrowband an clearing the fuel trims... Make sure your LTFT values stay 0... Commonly you will have some weird trims at idle, and on 04+ you will have crazy -15% trims in most all cases....
PWNED
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That's exactly what I did the last time I had the WB on. The ltft stuck at -12 until I reset the trims. As seen in the previous screen shot the fuel trims were at 0 all the time.
PWNED
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PE Fuel Adder vs. TPS
If I leave this stock value to 20% would it net me better mpgs?
I only got 220 Miles to this tank of gas (city/highway) no playing around. With 4 mornings of 5 minute warm ups before I drove.
PWNED
New member
Here are a few screen shots of a 10 minute drive to work.
What is the best way to get the trims in check? Trim the injector flow rate a little bit? Or just subtract fuel from the maf (I know I have an lq4) but compared to stock maf file mine is scaled down a noticeable amount.
91parkave
New member
Do another drive slightly longer.. in your scanner require 90 hits a cell and use a filter function to (PID.6310 less than 14 to filter out everything but part throttle. Use your results and copy paste multiply half percent into your maf or ve table.
Or you could use your wideband to your advantage and use lambda to tune.
Or you could use your wideband to your advantage and use lambda to tune.
PWNED
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Where is this filter function? Is this something that needs to be selected before or after the scan?
PWNED
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Is it the import or export?
I don't see that exact pid you state. Could you take a screen shot or be more specific?
Thank you for being patient. Is there a link that informs me of the things you are telling me?
91parkave
New member
When I get home I'll post a shot. However your histogram display in the last post you made, where the numbers are right click go histogram settings. For your ve and maf do the function I told you about. For the exact pid click the little blue shield icon and it'll bring it up Look for Fuel trim cell
darkhorizon
New member
you need to get the LQ4 file graph put in for the maf table before you do anything.
PWNED
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What are the exact years of trucks that have this? I searched real quick and some state it is in a different format? If I want to play around just for future reference it would be nice to know how to do so. Any exact link?
The lq4 is set up for different characteristics like a v8. We just have to modify the table as it gets us started. Kind of like starting off a stock l67 maf table and modifying the hell out of it.
I will be going to stock maf this is just a pita.