*** Ultimate HID thread ***

[BackInBlack]

HERE ARE MY EXCERPTS FROM MY BIG HID THREAD OVER ON CGP FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN BANNED:






Ok, there seems to be a half-dozen different HID threads running right now, and I think we need to get all the information in one place...


1) Not all HID kits are created equal. Most 9007-2/9007-3 kits that come with a harness/control module do NOT need or want an upgraded halogen harness installed in the car. 9007-1 kits MAY still need a power harness to keep the ballasts happy. The control module basically gets it's power directly from the battery and uses the stock headlamp connector for control inputs. The module is designed to keep the arc burning for both the low and high modes. There appears to be a delay-off circuit that is active for a half-second during the transition from low to high mode, then it pulls in the electromagnets that move the arc tubes. Do not bypass this control module.

2) HID kits that are for 9004/9007 systems may show up at your door wired improperly. You may need to swap 2 wires in the connector to convert from 9004 to 9007 wiring.

3) Some HID arc tubes are NOT positioned properly, and will produce a very bad light pattern. Place your new HID tube next to your 9007 bulb. Be sure that the center of the arc will be at the same distance from the mounting flange as the center tungsten filament in your 9007 bulb.

If you post photos of your HID kit, I will be more than happy to assist with proper wiring. Be sure to try and contact your seller and request pinouts and wire colors for their harness, as it helps greatly.


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The 9007-3 VVME/FlashPlus kit requires a lot of modifications to work properly with your car. First, remove any upgraded relay harnesses for your old 9007 halogen bulbs. Next, you will have to check your blue 9007 connector to be sure that the pinout is correct. Turns out in this kit that blue is common, and brown and white are your low and high +12 circuits. Not sure why it would be wired wrong from the manufacturer, but so be it...

This was the stock kit:


This is what I had to modify to actually make it work:




The bulbs were not designed correctly to 9007 specification either. I needed to modify the base to sit differently in the 9007 adapter ring. It needed to be moved back about 1/10th of an inch to work properly, but since the bulb retract instead of tilt, the high beam pattern is almost useless. Money would have been better spent on a 9007-1 kit, as this one appears to be for the 9003 bulb...




Measurement should be ~1.75" from the middle of the low-beam filament to the top of the flange on the base. The low beam filament is radially centered in the glass:





I took it upon myself to modify the HID body so that I could pull it back from the housing a bit after I rotated and locked it into the 9007 adapter ring.

Before:


After:


Thus lining up the HID arc position with the 9007 tungsten position:


I will be machining some proper Delrin® spacers after the holidays, but for now, a zip tie and some picture frame wire will do. This is a true Richard Dean Anderson moment:


The results were astounding. The beam on the right is the original HID pattern, and my new and greatly improved pattern on the left. Now all I need to do is fix my driver's side windage adjuster.


Both sides fixed:


For those of you who will ask later, this is the 4500k kit...

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My custom HID lamp adapter ring:



Just waiting for the epoxy to set up over night, and then I'll install the set screws... [&:]

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ORIGINAL: pj_rage

Very interesting thread! I'm having trouble seeing the pics while at work, but I did view them at home before. Just didn't chim in then. I'm about to install the kit I got from the group buy... NOT bi-xenon, it is the 9007-2 type when following Brian's listing of the types.

Does anyone know how this kit from the group buy works out for this modification? Does it need the spacers or modification to line up properly? Do I need to modify the (blue?) connector at all?

There is no hope getting the high beam halogen to line up correctly, so don't lose sleep about getting that to work. Your high beams are going to be virtually useless. The main thing is to make sure that the center of the HID arc is 1.75" up from the top of the mounting flange. The only reason I am able to modify mine is because of the separate ring that first installs into the capsule, then the HID installs into the ring, because the lamp locking collar does not fit over the magnet assembly on my HID kit:






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Hmmm... Found a mechanical drawing on the 9007 bulb. Not sure of it's authenticity. Why Sylvania would dimension from the back of the flange to the top of the tungsten is beyond me... Will have to take another look at repositioning my HID bulbs to fit this and see what happens...

Interesting that they call that out at 1.75"...



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^^^ Nice work there.

I spent my lunch break fine tuning the pattern by moving the bulb around in the housing. This is the best I got so far. Not going to mess around with it much more until I summer when I can spend some time modding the lamps further to limit the excessive high/low stroke...

Low beam:

(The hot spot above the pattern is just camera glare off the white surface.)


High beam:


I was using an older camera that did not have manual controls, so the images are a bit washed out unfortunately...

[GR8racingfool]

Dude, I'll say it again, you know your stuff. Excellent write up! I gave you a 5 = excellent rating fort his thread.

I had considered buying the HID kits of ebay just for the sake that they are cheap and put out more light than the stock ones I have. But the fact that they are brighter, and not having a high beam on them to defend yourself when somebody flashes you is drawing me away.

Is it possible to put up where you found these low/high HID's for your car, and what they ran etc.

How much for you to provide a set of those modified spacers for me?

Your a true asset to the community! I'm glad your over here!

~F~

[webracin]

X2 on that....hahaha

webracin

[02BlueGT]

^^^ Lots of good information, I vote Sticky

[Toasty]

Dude, I'll say it again, you know your stuff. Excellent write up! I gave you a 5 = excellent rating fort his thread.

I had considered buying the HID kits of ebay just for the sake that they are cheap and put out more light than the stock ones I have. But the fact that they are brighter, and not having a high beam on them to defend yourself when somebody flashes you is drawing me away.

Is it possible to put up where you found these low/high HID's for your car, and what they ran etc.

How much for you to provide a set of those modified spacers for me?

Your a true asset to the community! I'm glad your over here!

~F~

I've been thinkin about gambling on a set myself. perhaps today i'll have a moment of weakness and get some---

i have to take it with a grain of salt because we know how well ebay sellers can understand sometimes, but the ebay seller i am dealing with has repeatedly stated that the 9007 kit he has is the tilting, the only telescopic kit he has is for the H4 style bulbs only. I also sent him animated gif's of both the tilting and telescopic kind, and verified tilting that way as well.

i think im gonna order a set

[jcprix]

Here is a link to info that compliments the work BnB has done....

http://www.grandprixforums.net/f52/hid-kits-2401-2.html

[BackInBlack]

^^^ You should post up the work you've done as well (if you're willing to). I think that the invasive procedure you've performed to make tilters out of retractors far exceeds the work I have done and should not go unnoticed!

[jcprix]

From the CGP HID forum.....

Well, I think I have reached closure in this HID adventure. It was warm out today and no precipitation so made time to get some high beams. Actually, I'll refer to them as "mid" beams. Since BnB did the work on centering the low beam by moving it 0.100 and reviewing the differences between 9003,9004and 9007, the conclusion is that telescoping HIDs are intended as 9003 replacements (filaments are horizontally inline). Since 9004/9007 have the filaments aligned vertically, the tilting HIDS work for them. Unfortunately, it appears tilting is scare or no longer available. FWIW a supplier hinted on high failure rate of tilters. I'm not sure if it's true, but when two people independently order tilts from the same outfit and get telescoping (they clearly advertised tilts) and repeated emails are unanswered about tilting, I think the telescopics are here and being sold for 9004/9007 applications even when there is poor low beam and no high beam generated. Apparently,the high output is so impressive, folks don't care.

So where am I going? I took a tele apart in a effort to reduce the horizontal motion. The idea is the 9007 filaments are so close in halogen bulbs, if the hid move only a small amount, a beam may be salvageable. The HIDs move about 0.250in. As observed in the images,the low beam is maintained by spring pressure. High beam is when the coil is energized. I reduced the travel by placing spacers equivalent of 0.170in in the magnet housing. I determined this value based on trial/error to balance beam movement and beam shape. In the end, while not a see down the road 10miles high beam, it does function. I think I'm done for now...at least until I figure out how to machine the guides on the lamp base for tilting/twist motion....enjoy the images

HID Bulb



Magnet off (the part that had shims added)


HID lamp motion coil


before adjustment (cross beam (aka high beam)) (shutter speed adjusted)


With travel reduced (shutter speed adjusted)


Low beam


High beam


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
well, I finally made time to see if I could convert Telescopics to tilter. Almost there I think. But kinda blind as without a tilter in hand to compare to i guess it's perfect!

Here is an image with details. With the current thought and dremel work, I have provided approx 0.145in down travel (tilt) with approx 0.105in back travel. I suspect the real tilters will have travel in both axis as the lamp will have to travel in an arc. I was not able to work the internal coupling as i expected, but i think I'm close enough.

Enjoy the images. The beam shots have the drivers side with tilt mods and the pass side with reduced telescopic action. When I do the pass side, I'll post detailed images so you don't see my goldberg art done to the drivers side. While the beams may not show much, it makes a nice difference on the road with highs getting a much better distance. Not perfect but better.

low beam


High Beam


Measured


Lowbeam


High beam


##############################################

So I finally took real life images of my telescopic turned tilting mutt lamps. Both lamps tele/tilt as per the images in the post above. While I'm pretty sure I can modify the telescopic action into a full on tilting, I think that will be put off for a while. These seem to work pretty well now and I'm kinda along the lines of "good enough". Time will tell.

The close in yellow tint is from Blazertech 2200's I failed to shut off

You can see in the images the highs fill in the center well and project down the road a good distance

Low beam


High Beam

[archemedes]

great info, nice work

[Reptile]

This is making my head hurt.....must mean it's a good thread!

Time to read this again....and again....

[Rocket468]

yea, lots of info here.

[bula81069]

this is an awesome tread!!! Thanks for all the info so far. Can't wait to go back and reed once i get home and mod my HID's too

[Gearhed42]

I have just read through this thread and most of the linked ones regarding HID upgrades on the GP with the 9007. I found a 9007/2 kit on ebay that has the seperate halogen bulb for the high beam and it seems to me that this is the solution to make my car "street legal" for inspection and still have decent funtionality. It seems that it all makes sense having the halogen bulb over the ballast which is strikingly similar to the 9007 halogen bulb having 2 filaments one over the other. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this setup and BackInBlack seems to be the brain of this operation do you know anything about these and do you think they will work?? Thanks everyone awesome info!!!

[jcprix]

I started with the HID/Halogen lamp. All it is good for is passing inspection. The filament in the halogen is not over the HID light source, but set back which results in a flood light on high, there is no beam. In addition, the halogen Lamp I had (and reported by others) is urine yellow.

[Zef_66]

I started with the HID/Halogen lamp. All it is good for is passing inspection. The filament in the halogen is not over the HID light source, but set back which results in a flood light on high, there is no beam. In addition, the halogen Lamp I had (and reported by others) is urine yellow.

Where did you guys get these? I am still looking for a set of HID lows, halogen highs. Any links?

Thanks.

[jcprix]

ZZP

[Gearhed42]

I found them on ebay and i asked the seller for some up close pictures to see if indeed the halogen bulb was over the ballast and in the close up pictures of the ballast the halogen filament and the arc gap of the ballast seemed to be lined up very closely. So going by what backinblack has been posting it should work pretty good. Thats really all im looking to do is pass inspection but i want the beam to be somewhat usefull. Oh and zef_66 i found a lot of them to choose from on ebay. If you have trouble finding them i can send you some links.

[jcprix]

I started with the ZZP Halogen/HIDs. I live in the boonies and use highs to spot deer and moose. The halogen part was simply useless. I then purchased the telescopics and made them into tilters (or at least really close) to get a high beam. Since I have the ZZPs in hand I can tell you that there is no physical way to get them close to the specifications of the 9007/9004 lamp with regards to vertical spacing. You may get them stacked, even then the distance will be way off and you will have to sacrifice the beam pattern in high or low position. Not trying to be glass MT here, but at least you won't be bumming when you get them and they are not as expected.

[Gearhed42]

Do you have any easy suggestions to modifying the tele ballasts? Everything ive year seems to be a pita!! Who would have thought this whole HID thing would be this rediculous....

[jcprix]

It's not the ballasts that are modified, it's the the lamp assm and solonoid on the lamp itself. Carefully review this tread from the first page. If you understand it, go for it. If confused, you might want to think hard before starting down the path.

The conversion from tele to tilt is in this tread a few pages up. I think it looks more intimidating than it is. The first step is to adjust the HID source position for proper low beam formation. This will involve a adjustment to the lamp/collar assm (you can see in the images). Next is limit the tele motion from about .250in to .170 inch. You will have to check this motion as some lamps may have different travel. This may well be enough to provide you with a high beam you like. It's easy as it's done by adding non magnetic spacer(s) to the motion solenoid. A third step is to dremel the guide grooves in the lamp and add a stop to limit the tele further and induce the tilt.

Once you take them apart, they are not that complicated. That typed, you need to be a person to be able to understand motion relationships and proceed carefully as once you remove material, it may be difficult to put back.