Thread: a lesson about civics.

There is no Replacement for Displacement.

It has always stood true. For those idiots that respond, "What about Forced Induction, it doesn't matter then". Let me turbo my V8 like you turbo'd your 4-cyl and well see who makes power. Its still dependent on your base setup. A 2.0L can make more power than a stock V8, we know this, there are VERY high WHP 4-cylinders, but they don't compete with similar boosted 6 & 8 cylinder engines.

Look at the article for the LM7 5.3 with a chinese single turbo kit and a tune, Junk Yard build for $3500 making double the peak output. How much do you have to have in a 4-banger to crank out a solid DD 600hp build?

A built engine and trans to start. **** tons of money.

dude.

LNF - direct injected, boosted 2.0 four cylinder = 260hp/260tq
LT1 - fuel injected, NA 5.7 V8 = 280hp/310tq?

turbo replaced 3.7 liters of displacement with close to the same power output. and we can go back to the late 60's and early 70's and look at the 200 horsepower smallblocks...

displacement is replaced by efficiency. it's that simple.

Originally Posted by Poil336

dude.

LNF - direct injected, boosted 2.0 four cylinder = 260hp/260tq
LT1 - fuel injected, NA 5.7 V8 = 280hp/310tq?

turbo replaced 3.7 liters of displacement with close to the same power output. and we can go back to the late 60's and early 70's and look at the 200 horsepower smallblocks...

displacement is replaced by efficiency. it's that simple.

im sorry, i hate to be that guy but thats an awful comparison.
the LT1 is old technology, its basically a 350 SBC with reverse flow heads or w/e.
not to mention its 15 years old.

if you wanted to do a legit comparison....
LNF in 2008 boosted 2 cyl 260/260
LS2 in 2008 6.0 412/412.

and the LS2 isnt even the best LS engine out there.

Originally Posted by Poil336

dude.

LNF - direct injected, boosted 2.0 four cylinder = 260hp/260tq
LT1 - fuel injected, NA 5.7 V8 = 280hp/310tq?

turbo replaced 3.7 liters of displacement with close to the same power output. and we can go back to the late 60's and early 70's and look at the 200 horsepower smallblocks...

displacement is replaced by efficiency. it's that simple.

Granted your right, but you are comparing LNF (new technology) to a LT1 of the 90s!?!?!?!
And your comparing a new technology boosted 4 cylinder to a NA old V8.

Compare your LNF with its direct injection, and 7-8 lbs of boost, to say... the new GT500. Its direct injected, 7-8 psi boosted... wait no lets not compare a 260hp car to a 600+hp car, that's just rediculous right?

Your argument just got rendered invalid. NEXT!

My point was for every mod, direct injection, boost, polish work, tuning. Displacement still make all the difference.

As said before, throw the same turbo ratio on the big motor and see what happens.

By turbo ratio, I mean turbo size in comparison to engine size.

Do you know why gm doesn't turbo 6 and 8 cylinders from the factory after the G/N? The Corvette performance group got mad that the G/N could beat vettes. There was a decal made by Buick in 1986 that read "Will brake for corvettes" with the G/N logo, and the Corvette group made them cease production and destroyed most of the inventory.

With the Hennessy kit, you can get a bone stock Camaro 5 up to 1000hp, show me how many Honda kits can do that.

It's six bucks...

C'mon people

Buick Grand National, GNX, Camaro, Mustang Parts and Accessories

Originally Posted by Explicit_Spade

Do you know why gm doesn't turbo 6 and 8 cylinders from the factory after the G/N? The Corvette performance group got mad that the G/N could beat vettes. There was a decal made by Buick in 1986 that read "Will brake for corvettes" with the G/N logo, and the Corvette group made them cease production and destroyed most of the inventory.

Look up the 96 GPX, its SLP parts list made it faster than the 96 covette for less money with a supercharged V6... that is why 97 models were made without the intercooler and with a 3.8 pulley. Fast but not too fast... can't sell more sedans than vettes for drag races lol

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

It's six bucks...

C'mon people

Buick Grand National, GNX, Camaro, Mustang Parts and Accessories

That's not the one. I have only seen one of the one I'm talking about and it was already sold by the time I came across it. :'(

Originally Posted by bluegtp91

It's six bucks...

C'mon people

Buick Grand National, GNX, Camaro, Mustang Parts and Accessories

my dad has this.
most relevant post in this thread.

This isn't a thread about relevancy, it's a thread about how a Grand Prix should beat a Civic!

This is 'Merikuh damn it!

spade i just realized a few things about that build.
1) That is crank HP. That motor going into a monte (If itll fit) will lose a good % to the tranny.
2) E85 could be had on that engine for damn near the same price and make a whole lot more power.

Originally Posted by TLSheff

Granted your right, but you are comparing LNF (new technology) to a LT1 of the 90s!?!?!?!
And your comparing a new technology boosted 4 cylinder to a NA old V8.

Compare your LNF with its direct injection, and 7-8 lbs of boost, to say... the new GT500. Its direct injected, 7-8 psi boosted... wait no lets not compare a 260hp car to a 600+hp car, that's just rediculous right?

Your argument just got rendered invalid. NEXT!

My point was for every mod, direct injection, boost, polish work, tuning. Displacement still make all the difference.

you replace cubic inches with boost to get the same power. that's how that works. of course a bigger engine with the same mods makes more power, but then you aren't replacing anything. the fact is, you can cut engine size and make it more efficient with something like boost or higher compression ratios to make the power of a bigger motor. better example, put the LNF against the V6's GM has out right now. the 3.5 might just be a bored out 3.4, but the 3.9 is a new motor without boost and without direct injection. the LNF puts out more power even though it's just over half the size of the 3.9

i dont know what to post here, since pretty much everything has been covered and uncovered and shat on.

soooo....

Originally Posted by Odi

i wonder how many times that dude ****ed him self up trying to master that lol

Originally Posted by Poil336

you replace cubic inches with boost to get the same power. that's how that works. of course a bigger engine with the same mods makes more power, but then you aren't replacing anything. the fact is, you can cut engine size and make it more efficient with something like boost or higher compression ratios to make the power of a bigger motor. better example, put the LNF against the V6's GM has out right now. the 3.5 might just be a bored out 3.4, but the 3.9 is a new motor without boost and without direct injection. the LNF puts out more power even though it's just over half the size of the 3.9

Actually its the technology that makes the difference, not the boost in lower sized motors. I can prove this in 2 ways. The new Camaro and new mustang V6 models make 300hp NA, this is more than alot of V8s were 10 yrs ago. Secondly, In 79-93 the Mustang was producing a turbo powered 4-cyl. It started life with 132hp, peaked out after fuel injection to 200hp. Turbos haven't changed, its all in the technology.

4g63?

2JZ-GTE... make one of those bad boys fit.

Originally Posted by TLSheff

Granted your right, but you are comparing LNF (new technology) to a LT1 of the 90s!?!?!?!

And your comparing a new technology boosted 4 cylinder to a NA old V8.

Compare your LNF with its direct injection, and 7-8 lbs of boost, to say... the new GT500. Its direct injected, 7-8 psi boosted... wait no lets not compare a 260hp car to a 600+hp car, that's just rediculous right?

Your argument just got rendered invalid. NEXT!

My point was for every mod, direct injection, boost, polish work, tuning. Displacement still make all the difference.

Originally Posted by Poil336

you replace cubic inches with boost to get the same power. that's how that works. of course a bigger engine with the same mods makes more power, but then you aren't replacing anything. the fact is, you can cut engine size and make it more efficient with something like boost or higher compression ratios to make the power of a bigger motor. better example, put the LNF against the V6's GM has out right now. the 3.5 might just be a bored out 3.4, but the 3.9 is a new motor without boost and without direct injection. the LNF puts out more power even though it's just over half the size of the 3.9

There is a reason why Bugatti made the W16.

One guy says power output capability is proportional to displacement.
The other guy says power output is proportional to induction.

You are both right Einsteins. If you think about it there is no argument here.