4340 will handle more HP than can be achieved with a supercharged car. Yeah, F*ck you

[chrisb]

I dont know about anyone else but when i buy a part for my car i expected it to last and be well made. And i realize that i may exceed the the limits of such aftermarket parts, but trusting a companies claim and then that part not delivering what was claimed is bs. the shafts arent rated conservative imo and should be, to error on the safe side. plus they should just sell the
300m and get rid of the 4340 to make it a final upgrade.

[Iron Indian]

You do realize Dynotech used zzp input shafts too right.

The 4340 from zzp is $100 cheaper than intense-racing input shafts. Why don't you compare the strength of the zzp 300m shaft and intense input shaft.

And like I said, I think the Intense Shafts have a better track record than ZZPs. I've heard of a few ZZP shafts failing in the last year on the other board. I still think the Intense Shaft is still a better piece. But thats my opinion.

The intense shaft is still $25 more than the zzp shaft. I'll admit it does suck that the shaft broke. If ZZP replaced the shaft, I would say thats pretty darn good of them. Most companies won't warranty aftermarket parts for this reason.

Whats $25 when building a $2,000-$3,000 tranny? Nothing at all. If you buy the Input shaft because of that difference alone.... Not going to even say it.

ZZP ain't going to replace the shaft. There not as great of a company as you think they are. I'm sure there going to give me $200 for the time and trouble on the POS fuel rails they sent me 2 years ago? Uh huh... They wouldn't even exchange them without me paying an upgrade free. Doesn't make sense when you send the customer something thats a POS and leaks a month later and creates a fire hazzard for you.

Even though intense has their input shafts made by the same company as GM racing does, the shafts are to totally different shafts. The GM Racing shaft looses the lock up feature of the torque converter, which allows them to have a thicker shaft and eleminate the seal groove.

[/quote]


Well state the obvious. I never said get the Intense shaft because the same company who makes the GMPP makes there input shaft.

[Iron Indian]

If you look at his sig, he's got some decent power but look at his trans setup

4000 stall and 3.69 gears. I don't know if he was launching, but that setup with some sticky tires and high shift pressure can and will do a number on parts.

Sure parts are going to wear, but in such a short time? And keep in mind, sure he has Nitrous, but he is by no means heavily modded. No heads, cam, high compressioin, different power adder (Turbo) etc. He could put ALOT more through it than he has on it now. Theres alot more that could be made. His car does run good I will. I've meet him and seen his car in person before.

IMO, even with a 150 shot and his mod list on slicks, the input shaft should last for a bit anyway. Hell I knew of a guy in San Antonio (Met him at ACS 3 in 2005) running similiar mods, with 150 shot IIRC he was high stalled running slicks and 12.30s and he had Intense hard parts for several years.

[JJ91284]

And like I said, I think the Intense Shafts have a better track record than ZZPs. I've heard of a few ZZP shafts failing in the last year on the other board. I still think the Intense Shaft is still a better piece. But thats my opinion.





Whats $25 when building a $2,000-$3,000 tranny? Nothing at all. If you buy the Input shaft because of that difference alone.... Not going to even say it.

ZZP ain't going to replace the shaft. There not as great of a company as you think they are. I'm sure there going to give me $200 for the time and trouble on the POS fuel rails they sent me 2 years ago? Uh huh... They wouldn't even exchange them without me paying an upgrade free. Doesn't make sense when you send the customer something thats a POS and leaks a month later and creates a fire hazzard for you.




Well state the obvious. I never said get the Intense shaft because the same company who makes the GMPP makes there input shaft.

Don't be so sure. Search clubgp for a guy within the last year that broke one. They had him send it in and he got a replacement. Its better to try than to assume

[JJ91284]

Sure parts are going to wear, but in such a short time? And keep in mind, sure he has Nitrous, but he is by no means heavily modded. No heads, cam, high compressioin, different power adder (Turbo) etc. He could put ALOT more through it than he has on it now. Theres alot more that could be made. His car does run good I will. I've meet him and seen his car in person before.

IMO, even with a 150 shot and his mod list on slicks, the input shaft should last for a bit anyway. Hell I knew of a guy in San Antonio (Met him at ACS 3 in 2005) running similiar mods, with 150 shot IIRC he was high stalled running slicks and 12.30s and he had Intense hard parts for several years.

Metal doesn't care how much power you put out. I would bet some serious cash that a 4340 input shaft could handle 600 hp. If the power is gradually added its fine, if the power/torque hits HARD, parts snap. It doesn't care about hp, it cares about shock load. This is a very important concept in structural aeronautical design.

[wanderson75]

Don't be so sure. Search clubgp for a guy within the last year that broke one. They had him send it in and he got a replacement. Its better to try than to assume

Check NAIOA too. We've had a couple of Impala's break them as well.

[Swash]

Metal doesn't care how much power you put out. I would bet some serious cash that a 4340 input shaft could handle 600 hp. If the power is gradually added its fine, if the power/torque hits HARD, parts snap. It doesn't care about hp, it cares about shock load. This is a very important concept in structural aeronautical design.

I'm sure that fatigue played a good-sized role in this breakage - and probably all of the others. I'm NOT saying or implying that these were misused or abused - but using them within the construct for which they were purchased - which will cause stress fatigue - there's no getting around it.

3 components for fatigue resistance:
- avoid sharp changes in section - FAIL
- achieve the best, and most consistent; surface finish possible - FAIL
- compressive stress (shot peening or fillet rolling on a cylindrical radius) - FAIL

4340, 300m, Aermet (100, 310, 310...take your pick) - will all suffer from shock load stress fatigue. It's the process in which the machining, finishing, Q&T, etc are all done that makes the difference.

Bottom line - he isn't gettting that shaft replaced, no refund, not even a reach around. Add it to the list of issues that ZZP has had...it's kinda like my johnson...long.

-Swash

[DanGTP]

Swash has a point. Product design plays just as big a role as the material it's made of.

[chrisb]

i would like to check the R.O. (run out) of the parts and compare it to the parts i make for honda which are along the same lines (are parts cant have more then 50 microns which is to high and normally set around 30 microns on R.O.), also i would like to know how often they test the hardness of the materials to check consistency. from what i see on my zzp 300m input shaft is chatter in the seal ring groves. when our parts have chatter they are normally gotten rid of depending on where it is on the part. bottom line im not really impressed with the machining of the parts And would not pass them in the condition that they are being sold.

[Iron Indian]

I'm sure that fatigue played a good-sized role in this breakage - and probably all of the others. I'm NOT saying or implying that these were misused or abused - but using them within the construct for which they were purchased - which will cause stress fatigue - there's no getting around it.

3 components for fatigue resistance:
- avoid sharp changes in section - FAIL
- achieve the best, and most consistent; surface finish possible - FAIL
- compressive stress (shot peening or fillet rolling on a cylindrical radius) - FAIL

4340, 300m, Aermet (100, 310, 310...take your pick) - will all suffer from shock load stress fatigue. It's the process in which the machining, finishing, Q&T, etc are all done that makes the difference.

Bottom line - he isn't gettting that shaft replaced, no refund, not even a reach around. Add it to the list of issues that ZZP has had...it's kinda like my johnson...long.

-Swash

Good point, you're right...

[Iron Indian]

Metal doesn't care how much power you put out. I would bet some serious cash that a 4340 input shaft could handle 600 hp. If the power is gradually added its fine, if the power/torque hits HARD, parts snap. It doesn't care about hp, it cares about shock load. This is a very important concept in structural aeronautical design.

Sometimes you just can't polish a turd, that being the 4340.

600 HP huh? LOL, ok. I'm sure the many others who broke them were putting out around 600 HP too...

[Iron Indian]

from what i see on my zzp 300m input shaft is chatter in the seal ring groves. when our parts have chatter they are normally gotten rid of depending on where it is on the part. bottom line im not really impressed with the machining of the parts And would not pass them in the condition that they are being sold.

I've heard this from other before when getting these parts, that they were poorly machined...

[Iron Indian]

Don't be so sure. Search clubgp for a guy within the last year that broke one. They had him send it in and he got a replacement. Its better to try than to assume

And i'm sure there was more to the story than that, ZZP ain't that great to everyone, unless you like to get under Zooomers desk that is...

[chrisb]

so have ya sent this back yet?

[TommyGloves]

Man I'm sorry to see that. Looks alot like the ZZP output shaft that snapped in my SSEi last year (that is also supposed to handle 1000 hp or something like that.)

EDIT: ZZP did send me a replacement and Trannyman was kind enough to get it rebuilt in a day.

[echarleswhyte]

I have never owned a SC car but I did drive one as a rental once, lol. Even I know those pics were of a tranny and the thread has nothing to do with SC but a tranny having after market parts and blowing up. Basically what some are saying is the rant on the SC has NOTHING to do with what happend to the TRANNY. ;-)

[Abrasive]

Add it to the list of issues that ZZP has had...it's kinda like my johnson...long.

-Swash

Oh, I laughed until I cried. Can't wait to see you this week Swash. A shame we live within an hour of each other and I only get to see you once a year.

[BillBoost37]

Somehow I can't get around one thing.. most of the cars are supercharged and the purpose of buying a better part is modding. I bought my first input shaft based blindly on forum recommendations, it's still in great shape w/o issue and I'm pushing around 450hp. By no means is that a lot for our cars, anyone that knows me.. I'm abusive. Broken every dumb azz part in the trans that should never break. Input shaft is not one of them. When I purchased an input shaft for another trans, I bought based on quality and reputation happily spending the extra $25.

I'm listed on a vendor's site as a recommended installer and when the parts are installed they fit right the first time w/o unexpected problems. To an installer, that's important.

[Swash]

Oh, I laughed until I cried. Can't wait to see you this week Swash. A shame we live within an hour of each other and I only get to see you once a year.

Me too my friend! T-minus 9 hours!

-Swash

[chrisb]

you broke an output shaft? wow. how hp are you running?

Man I'm sorry to see that. Looks alot like the ZZP output shaft that snapped in my SSEi last year (that is also supposed to handle 1000 hp or something like that.)

EDIT: ZZP did send me a replacement and Trannyman was kind enough to get it rebuilt in a day.