Thread: Removing rear O2 sensor on 01-newer PCMs -- Things you should know

Amen. I try to read into what he is saying but if he knows the answer why not explain it?

I been trying for a year now to rid my car of the cat test. All I have is hpt and. 2003 regal
Thank you in advance

Well having a cam , the first 5 mins of drving ltft goes to 16.4. It causes my cause to almost stall when coming to a stop. The effects were not felt when I had a stock cam

If I want to maf tune I need to drive first until it stops then collect a scan

You can find some people who can change a HPT file to a BIN file to be used in Tiny Tuner. The problem is that there is only about 2 or 3 people that I know of and they don't like doing it. The file also has to be in the non beta version of a HPT file and you have to really know what you are doing.

You can try and post up on the "other" big forum and see if one of them will do it but chances are slim.

I think that is the only way to get an HPT file on Tiny Tuner but I could be wrong someone may know something I don't.

sooo can i take my 00 computer out and just put in my 01 body...??? then i dont have to worry about this..??

Originally Posted by Sinister Performance

So why don't you explain to him how to do that in your next post on here so you can actually post something helpful... Is that too much to ask?

The problem is that there is only about 2 or 3 people that I know of and they don't like doing it.

The chance that he has the supported OSID unlocked in TT already is fairly high... If that is the case then a 2000 word post explaining how to modify the TT database would be a bit of a waste of time. I would probably end up offering to fix a TT database to support the OSID on his car, but i would do it with a disclamer of the fact that it would be largely untested.

Flubbing through blindly mapping OSID's is not the best practice to get into, so I dont see any reason why I would explain it in detail anyway.

It is typically pretty easy to find the correct OSID

I have explained this MANY times on both this forum, and cgp. There is 2 stickies at the top of the tuning section here explaining this, and 1 on cgp explaining this, all with my username on them......

X2. I have an 03 and I use hpt beta. I really needed a way to get tiny tuner to open my tune.

If I am going to get "busted" for the 1liner posts... then I dont really see why I should have to answer these "omg I need shiz to work" 1 liner posts with a blob of info that might be completely unrelated. I cant offer help to someone that doesnt even offer up what car they are working with? Guy posts he has an "03", which turns out to not even be a grand prix????

Give me an OSID, model, engine, transmission, and I MAY help you find a file... but you have every ability to go and find the file youreslf on ANY of the grand prix forums thanks to me, as I have made this availible for all on both of the main 3800 forums now.

I think that is the only way to get an HPT file on Tiny Tuner but I could be wrong someone may know something I don't.

I didnt really think that anyone was still confused on how TT works with HPT..... Its this simple... The site he downloaded TT from has an even more indepth explaination on how to do this as well.... Its not MY FAULT people are helpless and refuse to even read things when handed to them on a silver platter... I never had anyone spoonfeed me information 2000x before I understood it, I found out how to do everything on my own.

1. get a STOCK file with the same OSID that you have unlocked for your car in HPT.
2. Load that STOCK OSID file into TT, and bring it up to speed with all of the change you have made in HPT. You can fairly easily transfer most anything you need with copy and pasting... but heck usually its a pretty good chance to start fresh again with your tuning... as most people have way jacked up their maf sensors and stuff anyway.
3. Load the TT modified BIN file into HPT.... HPT will then automatically convert this to a HPT file, and let you edit it further, and ultimately upload it to your car, just like everything is normal.
4. The catch22 here is the fact that you now want to make a change (fueling/normal stuff/whatever).. you then lose the ability to just pop a file back in TT to make that specific change you needed. The fact is, i have never really went back to TT for things on pre 04 cars, as HPT and DHP both have good maps for most anything you need aside from AFR spark and Cat testing... both of which are never adjusted after they are changed to what they need to be.

Well having a cam , the first 5 mins of drving ltft goes to 16.4. It causes my cause to almost stall when coming to a stop. The effects were not felt when I had a stock cam

This is not cat test, as it only happens during cruise. You can never idle and hit cat test... I have tried.

Welcome to the world of trying to run a xp/s1x/nic+ sized cam on a narrowband. It happens, its always going to happen. I have offered my solution up many times, and that is converting to run in full time open loop mode which eliminates false readings from the narrowband.

This is not cat test, as it only happens during cruise. You can never idle and hit cat test... I have tried.

Welcome to the world of trying to run a xp/s1x/nic+ sized cam on a narrowband. It happens, its always going to happen. I have offered my solution up many times, and that is converting to run in full time open loop mode which eliminates false readings from the narrowband.

your right it happens when its first started and I start to drive . But it does come about randomly sometimes there after, so im guessing thats the true cat test

so using my aeroforce gaues (narrowband) to monitor my LTFT is , say, pointless? cause after a few maf tunes, everything seems in check, locks at 0 and runs fine

How is running in open loop going to change things? I have a wideband but unfortunately during the time of my cam install, the stainless DP on the car, has no rear o2 bung so Im waiting for that to be installed so I can run the wideband again

got a link to explain this? I have NO issues with my tune except for the random 16.4 , and you claim its from my tune not a cat test

got a link to explain this? I have NO issues with my tune except for the random 16.4 , and you claim its from my tune not a cat test

There is plenty on open loop on the other forum, I would browse there a bit if you are interested. Overall the Narrowband does not tell the PCM if things are rich or lean in plain english... the PCM needs to know how to read the exhaust pulses coming through the exhaust. An aftermarket cam changes the size and timing of the pulses of unburnt air coming through and creates a "lean condition" according to the PCM's interpretation of the O2 sensor. It will then add fuel in terms of LTFT and eventually it will come back around to a normal reading after it has drowned the motor in fuel with large positive LTFTs. If you have done maf tunes that add fuel in these areas, you will find that you are probably running quite rich via a "stupid" o2 sensor that is a wideband... widebands are slow enough to read average air fuel and ignore the pockets of unburnt "overlap" air coming through the exhaust. They are also typically much further back from the motor to get a better mix of air.

Originally Posted by blown383z28

sooo can i take my 00 computer out and just put in my 01 body...??? then i dont have to worry about this..??

any one????

Originally Posted by blown383z28

any one????

what is the question? Of course you can swap to a older pcm just as easily as you can swap the file on the pcm with DHP... You wont be able to tune it with HPT without spending more credits.

Originally Posted by Bob Padilla

Can't we just have a 97-00 bin flashed onto the pcm? It's a question that's been bouncing around my skull for a week now due to my 01 gp not being able to pass state inspection with 3 not readies. The 97-00 can have 2 not readies and pass state inspection.

Doh sorry lol I guess I didn't read far enough before I asked that.

If you are already flashing you should just delete the codes out of the PCM and tune out the O2. This is one reason why I like having a PT and TT instead of HPT. Other than the fact I don't have to pay money.

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

what is the question? Of course you can swap to a older pcm just as easily as you can swap the file on the pcm with DHP... You wont be able to tune it with HPT without spending more credits.

yes that is my question.. can i take my 01 computer and swap it with my 00 gtp computer? I know i would have to buy 2 credits to tune that 00 computer. Thats what sucks is i just bought the 01 vin a few weeks ago b4 i found this thread...

I'm not sure what DHP is..?? I had a 99 regal gs that i have the vin paid for and the stock tune saved on my laptop... I'm assuming your DHP was not a typo and u meent hpt... im guessing im out another 100 if i want to tune the 00 computer after i put it in..

this must be what your talking about...

60DegreeV6.com - DHP Software

Can i just down load this and then i can use it to down load my 00 file or my 99 gs file?? Is this free?

thanks for the help!

DHP software does not work with HPT hardware, so you would need to buy a DHP tuner to wap the file.... But you still lose the 2 credits you unlocked on the 01 file.

You really need to see if you can open the 01 file you have in Tiny Tuner.... Its the cheapest and best plan of attack at the moment as you can possibly keep your 2 credits. If you cant get TT to open the file right off, there are ways to make it open it and disable the cat part... ways that are probably worth investigating.

The only version of TT is free, it was linked here. The only place you should get it from is eddies personal site.

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

Welcome to the world of trying to run a xp/s1x/nic+ sized cam on a narrowband. It happens, its always going to happen. I have offered my solution up many times, and that is converting to run in full time open loop mode which eliminates false readings from the narrowband.

Well I don't know what you are doing wrong but I've tuned dozens of cars (3800's and V8's) with aftermarket cams, some bigger than the XP/S1X/NIC. I've never had an instance where the closed loop system refused to work properly. I've always been able to tune the car using EITHER the fuel trims (working off the narrow band O2(s)) or a wideband; and then been able to send it out the door with the narrow band O2(s) still in there, fuel trims working, and closed loop enabled without any issues. Your notion of disabling closed loop operation and then sending it back to the customer is a bad idea, in my opinion. And I'll give you one example why...

Dave over at TripleEdge had a car come into his shop that had an open loop tune done. But after the customer drove the car around up here for a while (I think he moved up here from somewhere down south), it was running overly rich and the PCM had no way to lean the fuel back out because closed loop was disabled. The guy is damn lucky his cylinders didn't get washed down which would have trashed the block by the engine running so rich before the issue got corrected by Dave. This is one of the problems with open loop tunes. Move from one area (with a certain climate) to another and the way the engine runs is going to change. That is a fact.

Open loop tunes are great if you are going to be monitoring your car 100% of the time, and can make changes yourself if you see something going wrong. But that isn't practical. I don't know about you, but I rather enjoy driving my car and I do use it for pure transportation sometimes rather than just 100% leisure. So the thought of having a laptop on-board 100% of the time I drive it and having to keep one eye glued on that laptop doesn't appeal to me. Not only that, but I'm not the only person who drives my car. Sometimes my wife likes to drive it as well. And I'm sure just about everybody on here is going to feel the same way. I wouldn't run an open loop tune on ANYTHING unless it was a last resort (because you have an issue that prevents the engine from running correctly in closed loop). But like I said, I have yet to stumble across an application that can't be run in closed loop. And I've tuned some pretty healthy setups (I've tuned over 1000 PCMs and chips for over 10 years so I've seen quite a lot).

I'm not saying an open loop tune can't work, I'm just saying it isn't practical for 99.999% of the people out there. You can, of course, do whatever you want with your car.

Oh and thanks for the long post explaining pretty much nothing about what was asked earlier. If you don't know, then just say you don't know or don't post anything at all. No need to post fodder saying "it will take too long to explain" or bashing people because they don't know where to find all the information you've found in your internet searches.

I dont see any reason to get involved with a open/closed loop discussion.... But my suggestion is someone used to OBD1 / map sensor setups would probalby find it is much easier to run open loop on a maf sensor.

As far as the "different climates" and "some guy came in with a bad open loop tune" goes... I have never had issues with temperatures, elevation change, humidity, or anything hurting any of the 15+ cars I have put on open loop.

2 of the fieros I have done in michigan were shipped out to moutian areas, one in PA the other in colorado... both with widebands and they both know how to use them, neither have had to adjust their tunes...

Also every open loop tune I have done will command no more fuel than about 15.1 in most cases, and at cruise it usually averages a 16:1 air fuel.... If it ever gets too far off in a rich direction it will just be moving closer to what a closed loop car does normally.

Also, professional tuners like ourselfs have a few other tricks that we normally do to enhance closed loop operation with bigger cams... The laymans out there reading the stupid "tuner guide" are just going to throw a pile of crap at their maf and hope for the best.