Thread: 97 GP GT - Let's project a project car (from trailer to driving)

Yesterday I bought a 97 Grand Prix GT. The car has 180,000 miles and is really rough. It looks like it's all there, but did not start. The battery was dead so I don't know if it will kick or not. Doesn't matter because the purpose is to mod it and see what's happens. I gave $350 for it.
It's is hard for me to mod a car I have to depend on as a daily driver. Now if I play with some pcm reprogramming and burn a hole in a piston, I am not walking to work. For me work is 100 miles round trip. With this car I will not be afraid to try somethings.

This is where you guy's come in, I can use some ideas on what to do. The purpose of the thread is not as much to explain how to do them, there are enough threads here for that, this is more what stages does it make sense. Kind of like reality TV, this will be a reality thread and you get to help make decisions So I will need to set some parameters so we know what is realistic and what is not. Thats not to say there won't be dreaming. I already googled "what it would take to make a convertible". And before all you nea sayers, remember just a dream, thinking out loud, and check out this picture (http://new.clubgp.com/gpg99/990916-14.jpg). When we start a phase of the project we can post it in the appropriate section and link to it. Remember this is more about the process of getting there, some idea of what a "kind of a car guy" can do. I can not afford a show car and if I could I am not sure 97 GP would be a good choice. This will be a good test bed for trying things.

I don't have a lot of money and I have one more semester to finish a degree. I know college at 53, it has nothing to do with making more money, it will not matter in my job, but it is kind of a bucket list thing. So after this summer time will be an issue. I also do season tickets for OSU, so some saturdays during football season may not be available. I am an IT guy, so this kind of stuff is my stress reliever. I do have a garage, but most of it will be driveway/back porch work. I do not want to leave the Mustang or GXP out over night. It's been over 5 years since the Mustang has even seen a drop of rain. I think one of the biggest thing we will work out is of to fly this under the wife's radar. I am going to set a budget of $100 a month, doesn't mean can't ask for some things for fathers day, birthday, anniversary, and such.

So, lets get started ...

The lady that selling it did not have the title notarized last night, we are meeting after work (6/14/2013). My friend is meeting me in OKC to drag it the 45 miles home. It will cost me a steak dinner at Ken's. I will update the cost list once I know how much. Once I get it home I will post some pictures. My retired driver is on 02 GP SE, body is straight and good shape, just has a noise that I thought was a lifter, but now I starting to think piston slap. Anyway going to send it to the auction so I can borrow what will fit. I know I want the wheels and tires. If the headlights fit, they are new. If the tail light fits, the 97 has a crack one. The interior is different color so even if it fits not sure what I can use.

97 Grand Prix Project Car Photos by penright | Photobucket

Cost List Running Total: $853

Cost of Car $350
Cost of getting it home (Ken's Steak House) $80
Shift Cable $5
Window Motor $10
Carpet $10 (Rough will see how it cleans up)
Alarm $5 (see if I can get fobs for it)
Title Transfer/Registration for 2014 $107 (Should I count it as part of the project?)
Crank Position Sensor $33
Passenger side Taillight $20
Sway bar links $5
Thermostat and Gasket $6
4 ($10 a piece) rotors $40
Deck lid latch $10
Both Door panels, spare tire cover, steering wheel cover, driver side, dash @ floorboard, all $15
headliner cloth and glue $20
V/C Gaskets $14
2 Red Flasher LED, 2 yellow LED for rear view mirror mods $20
4 LED door step courtesy laser projector Shadow lamp lights $13 (since this is a coupe not sure what to do with other 2) :-)
2 NEW Front Left & Right Wheel Hub and Bearing Assembly $60
2 NEW Outer Tie Rod Ends $18
1 Sway Bar $12

YOu say you are meeting her on 5/14/13.. if you bought it yesterday, that might be an issue.

I don't know if you should mod a 97 GT. 97s are the bastard child of the 97-03 gps, they got a lot of left over parts from the previous gen cars the worst being the 4T60E trans.

+1 for a running total... Wish I had done that on some of my projects



And pics Pics PICS!!!!

Originally Posted by BillBoost37

YOu say you are meeting her on 5/14/13.. if you bought it yesterday, that might be an issue.

Thank you, it is fixed now. I have been debugging some programs and my sample data date was 5/5/2013. So my fingers were trained well.

Originally Posted by slick2500

I don't know if you should mod a 97 GT. 97s are the bastard child of the 97-03 gps, they got a lot of left over parts from the previous gen cars

First, there's one lesson learned. :-)
I did not pick the car, it picked me by being "cheap". It's like we don't get to pick our blood relatives or they don't get to pick us. Either way, it is what it is.
I really did not like the color, but again, it is what it is, so now lets make it better.

Originally Posted by slick2500

the worst being the 4T60E trans.

So, we will need to figure something out without blowing the budget. :-)

Originally Posted by slick2500

I don't know if you should mod a 97 GT. 97s are the bastard child of the 97-03 gps, they got a lot of left over parts from the previous gen cars the worst being the 4T60E trans.

Wut please elaborate???

Sorry about the lack of pictures at this time, they are coming. This is all I had time for this weekend. Spent all day Saturday getting church vans ready for Fall's Creek. After my "after church Sunday nap", I had to mow. It needed it and the rain was coming. Then we took my father-in-law out to dinner. When I got home it was raining. I leave to go to work at O'dark 30, so maybe I can document it better when I get home.

Here are the coming home pictures. Coming Home Pictures Photos by penright | Photobucket
Also I have never messed with Photobucket, so here is a test story.Coming Home Pictures by penright | Photobucket
Not sure which is the best way, will figure it out as I go. After getting it loaded on the trailer, I wanted my friend to drive me around the block, I thought it might be the last time I ride in the car for a long time.

So tried to jump start it, nothing. Then when I went to take it out of gear to get it on the trailer.My first fear is the Break-Shift-Key lock system. I am not sure what it was in 97 but my daughters 99's was a nightmare till figured out it was the key switch. Then my other daughter bought her own GP, don't remember what year it was, it was the spray shifter with WD 40. So with this car I did not know what it was going to take to get it rolling. This is when some of the story started to open up. The shifter moved like the cable is broke. Explains why the starter would not try to spin. Took the emergency break off, nothing, so then I started rocking it to see if it was in park and the breaks must have been rusted, because they broke loose and then it took off. So it was not in park and that explains why an automatic had it's emergency brake on. This is going to be fun, because my driveway is sloped.

We have our first decision to make. The 02 that I was going to send to auction, I had just put new (stock) head lights about year ago. As I said earlier I was thinking about swapping them with the 97, but then I started wondering, if I should leave them and see if I get more money at auction. I have not priced any aftermarket upgraded, but the stock ones, I gave about $100 for the set. Maybe I would be better off getting the most from the 02, then using it for some LED's. Although LED's may not be worth the difference, it might be better putting the $$$ into drivetrain.

Changing gears, I think I need to get it running before I start tearing it down. Don't you all think we need a good base line before we start? My friend did say he could not see the lever on top of the trans moving. So without looking right now I am guessing either cable or shifter. Either way it needs fixed someday.
Here is a thread I started looking into the best way to troubleshoot it.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/97-gp...ml#post1072344

Originally Posted by penright

My friend did say he could not see the lever on top of the trans moving. So without looking right now I am guessing either cable or shifter. Either way it needs fixed someday.
Here is a thread I started looking into the best way to troubleshoot it.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/97-gp...ml#post1072344

Found the problem and got it functioning until I can fix it right. The Thread has been updated. Thanks.

Originally Posted by penright

Sorry about the lack of pictures at this time, they are coming.

Here are the before pictures.
Before Photos by penright | Photobucket

So now I have the engine turning over, enough battery to start, and some daylight. Turned the key and nothing. Did check spark at the coil pack, no spark.
The good news is my wife drove the GT to Falls Creek this week, and I get to drive the GXP. Bad news my ODBII adapter is in the GT glove box. Not sure if I would see a code or not, so this morning I did some googling. I found this article on how to troubleshooting "a no start"
Part 1 -GM 3.8L Ignition Module Test and Crank Sensor Test (3X, 18X)
Don't have time tonight, maybe look at it again Thursday night.

Here a question.
If you don't have someone to turn the key can you use the old push button switch between to the starter solenoid? I know the key has to be in run but I did not know if there was a needed signal from the start position?


My wife is gone for the week, so I bought one yesterday, had no spark. Read the article. As in any troubleshooting, confidence. Can I use the push button switch and with confidence divide and conquer?

Originally Posted by 71gs3504sp

Hey

If this car dont work out I am looking for a red passenger front fender!

George

If I ever sold it, it would be all or nothing.

Using this article and the LED tool, I started troubleshooting the Ignition Module (IM) and Crank Position Sensor (CKP).
Part 1 -GM 3.8L Ignition Module Test and Crank Sensor Test (3X, 18X)
So first I tested the 12v to the IM, good. Then I must have grab the wrong wire because I thought I was missing the 12v for the CKP. I pulled the module off and took it to Autozone. The guy tested it 4 times all showed good. I went back, put it on, tested the 12v to the CKP and it was there. So I hooked up the LED to see if the CKP was working, and not only did the LED flash gut the it started. I tried starting it a couple of times, then I drove it around the block. Looks like the valve cover gasket has a bad leak, lots of exhaust and I did not want to drive it much from fear of the oil catching on fire. What little I drove the engine did pull good and the transmission worked at slow speeds. Park the car. About that time my wife got home from Fall's Creek and I go watch this. Cranked it and nothing. She commented something about now I know how women feel when they try and describe something and it does not behave as they expected. I thought maybe a loose wire, wiggled still not starting. My next step is to go back to the test and see what happens. The person who sold it to me said her dad thought it was a CKP, so maybe it is flaky.

The good news is it was running without any major noises. :-)

Could still be a faulty CPS for a cheap as they are might be worth trying to swap. Actually I bought a new one that's less then 2 months old and what do you know it was faulty. Good thing for the warranty.

Talking to a member yesterday, he asked me what my goals are? He also sent me the URL to his build, very impressive. As far as looks, I want the car clean but not fancy. As far as the motor....
I have been looking around trying to figure out some terminology. I have seen Stage 1,2,3 used a lot. For example stage 3 cam. Back in my days we used to used the term 3/4 race, full race. Someone replaced LT1 350 in my Z28 for a 327. I went in to the local speed shop and asked for a 3/4 race cam and the guy started laughing. Then he explained there was no such thing.
So again risking some laughs, here I go again. I have seen some manufactures list "Stage x" this part and that part. Would a Stage 2 cam from two different manufactures have the same specs? I am guessing not. Then I saw an article that described stage 1 as bolt on modifications, no change in drivability and very little loss of durability. Stage 2, mods were more than bolt on and had to be complementary to each other, where as Stage 1 could be added as you go. Also Stage 2 still has some driveability and more loss of durability, but not as much as Stage 3. Stage 3 is track only, bad gas mileage, very little durability.
One goal is to learn. I have learned to troubleshoot a crank but no start 3.8. :-) Looks like you can get a fully loaded trans from zz for about $3000. That maybe the smart thing to do, but nothing was learned. I have not looked into it much, but I would like to source the parts and build it myself. I know from experience school is not cheap and sometimes you have to repeat :-). And of course a top swap. Again looking at ZZ, looks like a Gen 3 kit runs about $1700 for Stage 2 performance. In this case a kit, is not bad because I still installed the parts.

So having set the stage, I am guessing a Stage 2? I am sure this can be like starting to paint a wall, and before you know it, the whole house is remodeled. I use to race at a local dirt track in the stock, inline 6 class. We could do external stuff, but the guts had to be stock parts. So I took my cam down to a local regrinder and he used a 396HP 454 profile. This caused coil bind on the springs, so I had to relive the spring seats. So then valve guides were needed. We were not allowed to port or polish, but I think the he got a little deep on the 3 angle valve job. :-) Anyway you get the picture. If I source the top swap parts myself I would learn how to mix and match.
The other thing is I would like to save and get a tuner.
Should I kit the top swap or find the parts?
I will keep doing some searching, but I am open to suggestions.

I started a discussion on best way to freshen up some of the frontend pieces.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/97-gp...ml#post1077661

BTW, I have the 02 clean for the auction this Thursday. Here is kind of a goodby to the GP that started it all.
In memory 02/02 - 06/13 (23,379 - 239,000+)
02 For Auction Photos by penright | Photobucket

Whoever want to guess at what it will bring, PM me and then I will update this post and we see who gets the closest without going over. :-)

No one guessed so I will keep the money :-), went for $1800

On the subject of top swap

Here is someone selling a "kit"
http://www.grandprixforums.net/topsw...uff-79696.html
Said all it's all there except the 3 bolt bracket, also he said "topswap came off a n/a bonneville that was topswaped. Came off at 160000 miles." Did not say what the miles was when the Bonneville was done. From what I have read so far when you top swap a N/A, you need to change the cam, rockers, and headers for better breathing otherwise you could have issues with KR. He is asking $300.

My questions:
What issues do you need to watch for in buying used top parts. I know you have the normal risk of a N/A, for example crack heads and failed parts.
But what about blower type parts. Like is 160000 a lot for a blower? Is $300 right price? Seems low, but at a 160000 miles I would definitely spend some bucks on the heads at the machine shop. Would still need a programer, as I said, that is something I am will to wait and buy my own to learn. Then cam and rockers, just to compare apples to apples on kits advertised on the web.

with a top swap, you dont need to change the cam. i think the farthest you need to go is the heads.
stock rockers are actually best with most cam setups.