Thread: Make A 4" Fenderwell Intake (FWI)[*]

Originally Posted by 03GTPLE

Don't worry about the cold air intake, it doesn't give you any more gains than just putting the cone in the engine bay. The supercharger heats up the air, so you don't get any benefits from the extra work

Yea keep believing 120+ degree intake temps dont retard timing any.

Actually 03GTPLE is correct.

I did the fender well intake on my (now dead and gone) 2000 GTP. All that putting it in the fender did for a supercharged engine was cause the filter to get dirty REALLY fast. It has been a topic of discussion quite a bit actually, and after cleaning the filter a lot, I did some research on it and for a supercharged engine, it really doesn't make any noticeable difference because like mentioned before, the supercharger warms the air up so much that it most certainly is quite warm (hot) by the time it is shoved down the throat of the engine so to speak. I took the same filter and the same massive intake pipe, cut it short and was getting the same performance. Sure, maybe with some testing equipment the FWI may give an 1/8 HP of improved performance, but that is about it. It certainly felt the exact same, and then I didn't have to clean the darn filter so stinking much.

Now, a naturally aspirated engine is a different story. Any drops in the temp of the incoming air and you should see/feel an improvement.

Do a little research yourself and you will see what we are talking about and be better educated the next time the topic comes up.

Someone did a more scientific test back in 2010 and determined that the "HAI" was actually better than a regular CAI (Thrasher). A good number of highly respected people in the Grand Prix mod circles agreed with the findings.

http://www.grandprixforums.net/dyno-...ake-33225.html

Now you know.

If you look at the back to back dyno you would notice why power was lower on the cold air intake when I get off of work I will get at the dumb comments you made

Originally Posted by 91parkave

Yea keep believing 120+ degree intake temps dont retard timing any.

on an ls4 sure, 3.8 with a heaton, barely.

Originally Posted by 91parkave

If you look at the back to back dyno you would notice why power was lower on the cold air intake when I get off of work I will get at the dumb comments you made

Yes... fight fight fight

Originally Posted by nickbuol

Actually 03GTPLE is correct.

I did the fender well intake on my (now dead and gone) 2000 GTP. All that putting it in the fender did for a supercharged engine was cause the filter to get dirty REALLY fast. It has been a topic of discussion quite a bit actually, and after cleaning the filter a lot, I did some research on it and for a supercharged engine, it really doesn't make any noticeable difference because like mentioned before, the supercharger warms the air up so much that it most certainly is quite warm (hot) by the time it is shoved down the throat of the engine so to speak. I took the same filter and the same massive intake pipe, cut it short and was getting the same performance. Sure, maybe with some testing equipment the FWI may give an 1/8 HP of improved performance, but that is about it. It certainly felt the exact same, and then I didn't have to clean the darn filter so stinking much.

Now, a naturally aspirated engine is a different story. Any drops in the temp of the incoming air and you should see/feel an improvement.

Do a little research yourself and you will see what we are talking about and be better educated the next time the topic comes up.

Someone did a more scientific test back in 2010 and determined that the "HAI" was actually better than a regular CAI (Thrasher). A good number of highly respected people in the Grand Prix mod circles agreed with the findings.

http://www.grandprixforums.net/dyno-...ake-33225.html

Now you know.

ok so now i need you to examine some things and educate youreself better before you go off saying stuff you have no clue about. If you look at the dyno comparison you would notice that the cold air box test is running 1 point richer in AFR which is on the rich side vs the open cone test humidity was also down 13% for the open intake test even though ambien temp was up 8 degrees this dyno test is not conclusive at all with the variables being like that between them if the AFR and other variables where closer or commanded the same then i could bite what the "shootout" between the two intakes.
Now if you need me to break down L67's AFR under boost it shouldnt be near 10 at all thats rich as hell. between 11 and 12 is the sweet spot.

so as far as IAT tables goes heres what stock reads for a stock L67




NOTICE as the hotter the IAT read the lower the timing no biggie sure but youre driving around at or above 100 degree intake temps youll start losing timing and im fully aware of the supercharger heating air which is also accounted for in other tables. I h am also the previous owner of a GTP so i know that part. So back to my original point Hot IAT's--Reduction in timing period. So now please educate youreself before you go nuts winging off
another thread thats not even conclusive.





For anybody wondering about LS4's while were on the topic theres also multiplier tables of this

I defend a guy that was thrown an insult, sure maybe with some pointed tone to my comments, but really...

I point out that others have stated that there isn't any real benefit to it, and just link 1 single discussion about it. Hell, I even say that I would bet that with some real testing equipment that YES you could probably measure some level of benefit, but in practice, you aren't going to notice enough benefit to warrant the amount of cleaning of the filter.

So you stated the exact facts that I said probably existed, but felt that a personal insult was due.

I know that some people are looking for every fraction of HP or toque boost that they can get. To them, enjoy cleaning your filters. The amount of dirt on the filter for a FWI after a mount seems like it would certainly negate any amount of performance boost (pun intended) that you would get with the fractionally cooler air after going through the supercharger. I mean damn, there is more to it than just air temp. There is also the amount of air allowed through the intake and into the TB. Breathing with your mouth open while jogging on a hot day beats out sucking air through a straw on a cool one. So none of the tests take into account real-world use and maintenance. They are done with new/clean filters. What about a test after a month of use? That would be helpful. Again, not discounting your data, just saying that for ALL of our benefit, there should be more information since most people don't clear their intake filters nearly enough, and that is even when they aren't crammed down a fenderwell.

Again, you stated the exact level of data that I said would be measurable and available. You made statistical points which are appreciated, but my statements are still true and valid. You make one single point above. HAIs reduce timing. Sure does. Is it noticeable to probably 99% of the population, probably not. That was my point when I said "it really doesn't make any noticeable difference" and "Sure, maybe with some testing equipment the FWI may give an 1/8 HP of improved performance, but that is about it. It certainly felt the exact same, and then I didn't have to clean the darn filter so stinking much."

So for those that want the hard data, look at my link above and 91parkave's data as well, and basically just decide if cleaning the filter is worth it to you since you will have to dig it out from the fender every time. If it is, then go for it. If not, you have hard data and real world usage and maintenance information at your fingertips now.

YOU make the decision. Do your research based off of your needs like I did and factor in the dirt factor into your maintenance schedule and how it will impact the slight increase in performance (detectable pretty much just using testing tools) and make up your own mind. Feel free to come back to this thread and post your findings. Just be aware that others may call your dumb, or an idiot, or say that you have no clue about it when in fact in ACTUAL USE, the difference was not noticeable to a human being for a lightly modded 00-03 series GTP. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck sports fans.

Originally Posted by nickbuol

I defend a guy that was thrown an insult, sure maybe with some pointed tone to my comments, but really...

I point out that others have stated that there isn't any real benefit to it, and just link 1 single discussion about it. Hell, I even say that I would bet that with some real testing equipment that YES you could probably measure some level of benefit, but in practice, you aren't going to notice enough benefit to warrant the amount of cleaning of the filter.

So you stated the exact facts that I said probably existed, but felt that a personal insult was due.

I know that some people are looking for every fraction of HP or toque boost that they can get. To them, enjoy cleaning your filters. The amount of dirt on the filter for a FWI after a mount seems like it would certainly negate any amount of performance boost (pun intended) that you would get with the fractionally cooler air after going through the supercharger. I mean damn, there is more to it than just air temp. There is also the amount of air allowed through the intake and into the TB. Breathing with your mouth open while jogging on a hot day beats out sucking air through a straw on a cool one. So none of the tests take into account real-world use and maintenance. They are done with new/clean filters. What about a test after a month of use? That would be helpful. Again, not discounting your data, just saying that for ALL of our benefit, there should be more information since most people don't clear their intake filters nearly enough, and that is even when they aren't crammed down a fenderwell.

Again, you stated the exact level of data that I said would be measurable and available. You made statistical points which are appreciated, but my statements are still true and valid. You make one single point above. HAIs reduce timing. Sure does. Is it noticeable to probably 99% of the population, probably not. That was my point when I said "it really doesn't make any noticeable difference" and "Sure, maybe with some testing equipment the FWI may give an 1/8 HP of improved performance, but that is about it. It certainly felt the exact same, and then I didn't have to clean the darn filter so stinking much."

So for those that want the hard data, look at my link above and 91parkave's data as well, and basically just decide if cleaning the filter is worth it to you since you will have to dig it out from the fender every time. If it is, then go for it. If not, you have hard data and real world usage and maintenance information at your fingertips now.

YOU make the decision. Do your research based off of your needs like I did and factor in the dirt factor into your maintenance schedule and how it will impact the slight increase in performance (detectable pretty much just using testing tools) and make up your own mind. Feel free to come back to this thread and post your findings. Just be aware that others may call your dumb, or an idiot, or say that you have no clue about it when in fact in ACTUAL USE, the difference was not noticeable to a human being for a lightly modded 00-03 series GTP. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck sports fans.

I never attacked anyone so you coming to the rescue story is b.s secondly you based your "research" off a thread thats not even conclusive and then you come at Me like I need to do research and better educate myself on the subject when you couldn't even look at the data in from of you. And the dirty filter? Come on man that's a maintnence issue. mine has no excessive dust build up on it after months of use.

Girls girls you're both pretty. Go to your corners.

The Dyno test isn't conclusive, yes, been discussed in the thread the differences and how it can be skewed.

That is NOT the point. The point is that as said, overall there is little to NO increase in power with a COLD AIR INTAKE over a SHORT RAM INTAKE. We do things to justify spending money and there is no justification to spending $300 +/- for a CAI kit when for -$50 you can build your own and have the same power increase.

While you are right, hotter air means lower timing, a tune will fix this, and most people don't do more than a few basic bolt on mods and so the timing issue can be fixed and worked around when the car gets tuned properly.

Now let it go before a mod throws down the hammer.

He proved my point. Thank you.

Worried about hot air? Intercooler.

/thread.

Woah. Dead thread bump. Kudos to you for searching though. Shows you tried.

Anyhow, a picture is worth a thousand words. Show us what you're working with and I'm sure we can give you some guidance. Did you see this thread?:

How-to CXracing 4" fenderwell intake