Thread: P0411 - secondary air flow - Trouble Shooting Help - 06 GP

My 06 GP with 94,000 miles threw a P0411 code, Issue with secondary air flow. I cleared it, drove the rest of the day. Drove to work the next day about 45 miles. Then when I went to lunch it came back. I just replaced a bad battery 3 days before the first code. I have done some searching on this forum and the web in general. I think I have a 30,000 foot picture of the system, but do have a few questions before I dig under the hood.

Here is my understanding of the system. I may be merging wrong make and years so correct me if wrong.
There is a electric air pump that pumps air through a one way check valve, through a control valve into the exhaust before O2 sensors. The air pump power is switched through a relay. The system self checks by commanding the pump on and control valve open and waiting for the O2 sensors to read the swing.

Questions:
1) Where is the relay? The 1 of 2 post I found on the forum the guy was looking for it. It sounded like he found it around where the air pump is, but some thought it was a relay in the fuse block.
2) Is there a check valve? My hose seems to run from the air pump to the control valve. Am I missing something?
3) When does/ What event causes the system self test? Cold or hot? Why did it work before a whole day before there was a problem?
4) Most of the write ups on the control valve was vacuum, mine looks electrically controlled. How can it be tested? I am assuming a solenoid, if so which pin fires it and when?
5) Is the battery thing a clue or coincidence?

Thought I would update thread. This is what I have learned and anyone can correct me. First to test it you have to be able to command system which I can't. The system runs a few seconds then shuts off. In my case I can hear the pump running. Also in the cold weather I cleared the code so I can remote start. Sometime when the code comes back it's a stuck valve. Got a valve coming and will swap it this Saturday. Any thought on how to replace it? Read something about pulling dog bones/rotating engine forward.
Any others words of wisdom?

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UPDATE:
Still having secondary air flow codes, sometime but not always o2 heater resistance. This is even after replacing check valve.
This morning I had secondary air flow, with a pending stuck valve.
Something else, if the light is going to come on it only happens after it is started. This make sense since that is when the secondary air flow is tested. Also seems to be since we have had some warmer weather it happens more often almost daily, when we had freezing to sub freezing it might happen once in 10 or so days.


I have the android app for obdll access. One of the functions is labeled test, but it shows mode 6 data.
Anyone familiar with "mode 6"? (maybe a thread by itself)
Sometime when I check it these item fail other time they pass.
Here is a snipit.
----
TID:$05 CID:$05
- Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
TID:$05 CID:$06
- Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
TID:$05 CID:$07
- Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
TID:$05 CID:$08
- Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed


It was suggested to check the grounds.
All the grounds seem tight, just looking for random ones. I did focus on the area of the secondary air flow and o2 sensors. Any particular ground for me to check?

My gm friend brought home his computer that can command the systems. First not running he turned on the blower, and then the valve. Look for air flow at the exhaust, then started it and watch the o2 sensor as we switched it on and off, all worked as expected. His thought it's something is flaky and when it fails then we know :-)


It not causing any driving issues, other than the light disable the remote start. So I keep clearing it.


I starting to wonder if it is the o2 sensors. Sometime the message, it's stuck open other times it's incorrect air flow. Once or twice out of fifty times, I got a o2 heater resistance with the incorrect air flow.
Bad 02 sensors? Any way to test and be sure?

No, you are the first one too even respond.
What are your symptoms and what have you tried?

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When the car is cold and you first start it, dose the pump start? If you squeeze the hose from the pump to the check valve can you fell pressure? The test only runs for about 10 seconds so you need the good up and know where you are looking?
Of course if you know someone with the right odbii reader they can command the system on, you can make sure the pump and valve it's working.
Have you tried and cleared the code?

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