Thread: how would missing 4th gear affect 1/4 times?

then it was just having a good day then. if thats the case why are manuals generally quicker in drag times? besides weight?

Because they are manual transmissions. Your car is an automatic you're not going to make it shift any better by moving the shifter around.

Originally Posted by Shiftingshaddow

then it was just having a good day then. if thats the case why are manuals generally quicker in drag times? besides weight?

This is actually false btw, auto is faster in the 1/4.

Not on most cars ^^

id love a five speed

long gears = more time spent outta your powerband

Doesn't it change the shift point if i manually change it myself? the rpms go higher that way before you shift. is this not how you would drive a manual?

wot in drive will probly get you going faster cause the car doesnt have to wait for your command,

when you "ratbag the shifter" what rpm does it shift at......... when you leave it in drive "wot" what rpm does it shift at. test that out and get back to us

Originally Posted by Shiftingshaddow

Doesn't it change the shift point if i manually change it myself? the rpms go higher that way before you shift. is this not how you would drive a manual?

No to drive a standard trans you would use a clutch.

Originally Posted by Seachicken

wot in drive will probly get you going faster cause the car doesnt have to wait for your command,

when you "ratbag the shifter" what rpm does it shift at......... when you leave it in drive "wot" what rpm does it shift at. test that out and get back to us

i don't have the shift points memorized in d but i can tell you for sure i was shifting up to second and up to third at higher rpm than the computer would in d. it just felt different and sounded different. i've driven in d thousands of times so its not hard to be able to tell the difference. the car would kind of top out at about 20-25 in first and you would have to shift to go faster. second was about 35 or 40 or so before it had to be shifted. it seemed that it responded a little quicker when i moved the shifter myself. maybe its just because more things are going on at once at it felt that way (because i was watching the road and the rpms and concentrating on pushing the shifter forward)

if you get on your 10 speed and ride as fast as you can in its lowest gear you will top out at a certain speed. your legs won't be able to spin fast enough or pump any harder. change the gear and you can go even faster and you're legs won't have to pump as hard or rotate as much. but if you start in third or fourth gear on your ten speed you won't start out as fast. we agree there, no?

so taking that same logic and expounding on a point made earlier about the trans not shifting when wot, i don't see how that is possible. the crank cannot spin fast enough to get the car up to say, 50, in first gear without changing to a larger gear. it has a top out point. and even if it could, it wouldn't be optimal. so if you wot from stop to 100mph the transmission shifts while you are doing it. it isn't physically possible to spin that small gear that fast. i mean, my car didn't want to seem to want to go faster than 25 in first gear. i shifted at what felt to be its peak power and acceleration. i tested that a couple times and pushed the rpms higher and it actually felt like i was losing power.

and how the computer shifts the car....i'm sure from the factory they give it shift points that are within a safe zone and they aren't going to give it parameters that are going to push its limits every time you get on the gas or wot. isn't there a bit of lag when the computer shifts the car? i don't see how pushing the gear shift one notch is going to be so much incredibly slower than the computer doing it for you.

i'm not understanding the relevance of the clutch, though, in this application. it is a shifting mechanism as well. i would think not needing a clutch would be a faster way to shift.

i'm just learning as i go here so please forgive me for trying to understand.

in a manual, you want to get the rpms as high as possible in the lowest gear possible until you hit that optimal sweet spot before up shifting. there is a sweet spot you can feel when you shift. it may not be what is best for the longevity of the car, but is best for acceleration. why would it be any different in an automatic transmission if you control the actual shift points? the only difference is there is no clutch--which seems to me to be a shortcut and should take less time.

don't people get their pcm tuned to change shift points? couldn't you just shift it manually and get the same effect? that is if it doesn't damage the transmission in some way.

Originally Posted by Shiftingshaddow

don't people get their pcm tuned to change shift points? couldn't you just shift it manually and get the same effect? that is if it doesn't damage the transmission in some way.

i guess ill say this in a simple way, YOUR CAR HAS A REV LIMITER!!!!!

no amount of "shifting" will extend your shift points

Originally Posted by Seachicken

i guess ill say this in a simple way, YOUR CAR HAS A REV LIMITER!!!!!

no amount of "shifting" will extend your shift points

is that for red line? I don't think I'm saying push the car to red line before every shift. i'm saying you can manually shift the gears at higher rpm than the computer is programmed to do. i'm going for a drive now. hee hee

whats your driving style.............. half throttle shifting

went for a quick drive. it would be hard to do extensive testing without someone riding along and recording results and a lot more open ground and daylight. In D the car from a stop shifted to second at 4500 rpm once and 4000 rpm another time. i went wot as best as i could. it did the same thing from 2nd to 3rd 4500 and 4000 rpm shifting. mph in at 2nd was right before 40 (I was wrong what i wrote earlier). third was about 60. i couldn't go much faster than that because i wasn't on highway i was on back streets in the city in new developments.

tried to manually shift the gears and the results from what i felt to be right were just about what the computer would do. Sometimes, though, the computer would kind of lag shift. that never happened with me bumping it manually. I was able to push the car to 5000 rpm before i had to shift it to second. i did not try that from second to third. computer never did more than 4500 rpm before it shifted the car.

telling the difference of acceleration between the two methods wasn't very clear because the car computer didn't do the exact same thing every time. i didn't hit the gas the same every time either. i couldn't because the wheels spin so its kind of a different launch every time. it did shift quicker manually, though. there was no lag. i think it would have to be a timed situation on a straight road like a quarter mile and it would have to be a controlled situation.

and now i need gas

Originally Posted by dsmuts

Not on most cars ^^

Yes on every car with the right gears will be faster with a auto than a standard.

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My car, if left in 1 and stomp it shifts into 2nd at about 4800 rpm. If left in 2, 3, or d it shifts at 5400. If I hold it in 2 and shift manually it will go to almost 6000 before tapping the rev limiter. But there is no advantage to doing that cuz after 5500 rpm it doesn't pull as hard.

In short. Leave it in d, hold it to the floor and let the Pcm do the shifting

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Originally Posted by Shiftingshaddow

i went wot as best as i could.

i didn't hit the gas the same every time either

what year is your car shadow? cause i just took my 04 gp gt on the high way and started at 0 and wot till it hit the governer at 109 0 to 50 1st gear shift point 5,600 rpm 50 to 90 2nd gear shift point 5,400 rpm 90 to 109. hit 109 at 4,800 rpm

Originally Posted by dazedandconfused

My car, if left in 1 and stomp it shifts into 2nd at about 4800 rpm. If left in 2, 3, or d it shifts at 5400. If I hold it in 2 and shift manually it will go to almost 6000 before tapping the rev limiter. But there is no advantage to doing that cuz after 5500 rpm it doesn't pull as hard.

In short. Leave it in d, hold it to the floor and let the Pcm do the shifting

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i agree now. even though i was able to get higher rpm it didn't noticeably help the car accel quicker for that factor. it did shift better though more consistently by hand. the computer and i basically would shift at same points any way.

travis, its 2000 gtp. all stock.

Originally Posted by dazedandconfused

Yes on every car with the right gears will be faster with a auto than a standard.

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Incorrect. You take two of the exact same cars in stock form, one auto, one manual, the manual will be quicker. Automatics generally have longer gearing (especially a longer first which hurts getting out of the hole), and lose more horsepower to the wheels because of the torque converter. Non turbo guys over in the 3000GT/Stealth world can do just an auto to manual swap and pick up 1 second or more in the quarter mile. There was a guy years back that had every mod imaginable done to his trans and he was still slower than a stock 5 speed car.

Originally Posted by stealthee

Incorrect. You take two of the exact same cars in stock form, one auto, one manual, the manual will be quicker. Automatics generally have longer gearing (especially a longer first which hurts getting out of the hole), and lose more horsepower to the wheels because of the torque converter. Non turbo guys over in the 3000GT/Stealth world can do just an auto to manual swap and pick up 1 second or more in the quarter mile. There was a guy years back that had every mod imaginable done to his trans and he was still slower than a stock 5 speed car.

You're comparing two totally different platforms. I said auto with RIGHT GEARING. When you shift with a stick you're losing boost every time. Get the right converter with manual lock up and that solves the problem of getting the power to the ground issue.

Edit. Your auto stealths must suck ass

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