newbie needs info ASAP

**flaco75** · 04-17-2012

HELLO GP FORUM-- well I recently upgraded from a 92 riviera to a 98 gp gt.I am going to do a top swap soon . I have access to either a s/c motor out of a park ave ultra or a riviera. Im sure it wont matter but which would be a better option minus the obvious lower milage one,also once i do the swap is there any shops in my area that do the tuning part,I havnt a clue how to tune a car. Is it safe to drive the car to the tuner once the swap is complete minus the tune.lastly any tips on aftermarket parts or what i should have done before the swap gets going. I would prefer to not tear it apart right after i get it all together so soon. oh one other thing,I read on a post from this forum that the pcm wouldrun a little rough for a short while but I didnt require a tune.basically the pcm would reprogram itself to the new setup. Is this true?

**SoergBot** · 04-18-2012

http://www.grandprixforums.net/safel...car-17482.html
http://www.grandprixforums.net/top-s...info-7763.html

hope this gets you started

**ctracer** · 04-18-2012

regarding the pcm...you need a tune.
and i dont think that the riviera engine s/c will work because i believe it is a series 1? someone tell me if im wrong.
read those links, alot of the questions will be answered in there.

**sseilmnop** · 04-18-2012

You need a series 2 or series 3 engine topswap. Series 2 is the Gen 3 m90 and is cheaper and easier. Series 3 is the Gen 5 m90 which is more efficient(more HP) but costs more and you need an adapter for the TB.

**flaco75** · 04-19-2012

Originally Posted by ctracer

regarding the pcm...you need a tune.
and i dont think that the riviera engine s/c will work because i believe it is a series 1? someone tell me if im wrong.
read those links, alot of the questions will be answered in there.

this is from the second link: " Look over everything once again, making sure everything is connected properly. Now, start the car. It should run rough while the PCM is learning the new swap. Add coolant as needed and bleed the system. Drive the car carefully for the first 300-400 miles."

so im unsure. I would think that you def need a tune. Any1 know for sure.

**Odi** · 04-19-2012

you need a tune. thats a fact.

**BillBoost37** · 04-20-2012

What years are the PA and Riv that the parts would be coming from? They need to be at least 96 or newer.
You need a different tune in order to start the car and not be worried. Too many things are being changed like the injectors, charger etc etc. Timing would be way too high to start with on an NA tune.

**flaco75** · 04-20-2012

Originally Posted by BillBoost37

What years are the PA and Riv that the parts would be coming from? They need to be at least 96 or newer.
You need a different tune in order to start the car and not be worried. Too many things are being changed like the injectors, charger etc etc. Timing would be way too high to start with on an NA tune.

They are both newer than 96. Can I just purchase a new pcm from zzp and install as far as the tune goes?

**Rico** · 04-21-2012

A stock L67 tune on your PCM would be the best option since it will be a stock setup. You can get a ZZP PCM with a stock tune. Let them know what your VIN is and you're good to go. If you decide to send it to ZZP, they'll either flash yours or they'll give you credit and send you one with the neccessary changes.

If you're planning to do more modifications, I would do it now before you get PCM or you'll need some custom tuning. Of course, you might need custom tuning regardless depending on what degree of modifications you decide on.

Edited: You say you have access to these motors. Are you swapping the entire engine or just the LIM and supercharger (top swap)? The L67 is different from the L36...different rods/pistons and compression. Putting a supercharger on the L36 would not work with an L67 stock tune. Well, not very well anyway.

**matt5112** · 04-21-2012

Originally Posted by BillBoost37

What years are the PA and Riv that the parts would be coming from? They need to be at least 96 or newer.
You need a different tune in order to start the car and not be worried. Too many things are being changed like the injectors, charger etc etc. Timing would be way too high to start with on an NA tune.

My car started on a n/a tune.

Even had 42.5's in it.

**matt5112** · 04-21-2012

Originally Posted by Rico

A stock L67 tune on your PCM would be the best option since it will be a stock setup. You can get a ZZP PCM with a stock tune. Let them know what your VIN is and you're good to go. If you decide to send it to ZZP, they'll either flash yours or they'll give you credit and send you one with the neccessary changes.

If you're planning to do more modifications, I would do it now before you get PCM or you'll need some custom tuning. Of course, you might need custom tuning regardless depending on what degree of modifications you decide on.

Edited: You say you have access to these motors. Are you swapping the entire engine or just the LIM and supercharger (top swap)? The L67 is different from the L36...different rods/pistons and compression. Putting a supercharger on the L36 would not work with an L67 stock tune. Well, not very well anyway.

L67 tune would be fine if you used a 4.0 pulley or stock pulley and headers.

Only problem is the trans settings will be wrong.

Slightly higher comp means you need less timing and need more flow mods to run the same size pulley.

You'll need to swap the heads over as well. Might be worth your time to work them over.

**matt5112** · 04-21-2012

Originally Posted by Odi

you need a tune. thats a fact.

Only because you need an l67 engine calibration with l36 (non m15?) Trans settings.

**matt5112** · 04-21-2012

Op, danger is n/a will command too much timing and an insufficient amount of fuel.

Do not go wot without correcting that.

You have a number of options.

Tune you current pcm or buy a mail order pcm.

No stock pcm will work for you here.

**Rico** · 04-21-2012

I was referring to the engine parameters but yea, that's a little clearer for him Matt. Actually it's a lot clearer.

**BillBoost37** · 04-23-2012

Matt..I've also started stuff up with the wrong pcm etc. However when advising someone else, I'll typically go conservative. If he fired it up and got all giddy, started revving the crap out of it and maybe decided a test drive wouldn't be bad.... well..I wouldn't want him to do that.

**matt5112** · 04-23-2012

My car started but the narrow bands were pegged at 1000 mV the entire time.

It probably would have started washing down the cylinders and begun some cat clogging fun.

**darkhorizon** · 04-23-2012

Originally Posted by matt5112

My car started but the narrow bands were pegged at 1000 mV the entire time.

It probably would have started washing down the cylinders and begun some cat clogging fun.

......

**matt5112** · 04-23-2012

I started it for 20 seconds then shut it off and waited for a tune.

No point in trying to have someone tune a car that won't start.

**Sven the Sexman** · 04-23-2012

My guess is given his location, the access to cars is located at Horseheads Pick-A-Part. I'm going to try to get a copy of my tune from my top-swap for Bill this weekend when I go out to PA. Maybe I can hook the OP up with a variant of it while I'm out there sometime.

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