Water pump bottom right bolt

**Tsquared150** · 08-13-2013

I have a 05 Grand Prix with a 3800 series three supercharged engine. Trying to replace the water pump. Got all the bolts out, but the large bottom right bolt is loosened, but cannot be pulled out enough because the head hits the back of the smooth idler pulley for the supercharger. I cannot figure out how to remove that pulley. It looks like there is a mount that can be removed but I can't seem to find the bolts hold the mount on. I removed the bolt in the middle of the pulley hoping it would come off but it is pressed on and I can't get a pulley puller in the engine compartment. How the heck do I get this last bolt out?

Other forums have mentioned a t50 torx bolt that is somewhere holding this pulley on, but I don't see that anywhere. Someone please help!

**Fivefingerdeathpunch** · 08-13-2013

So we talking pulley number 3 or number 9??

**Scottydoggs** · 08-13-2013

its # 9 and its got a bolt right in the middle, its either a torx 55 or a 13 or 15 mm.

its off in this pic, when i did my water pump.

**Erik Adam Rodriguez** · 08-13-2013

t55

**stealthee** · 08-14-2013

Later Grand Prix are a normal bolt head. I bought a T55 for nothing when I did my water pump.

**Tsquared150** · 08-14-2013

So is it that bolt that is to the right of the water pump kind of set in a little? It that holding on that mount the pulley sits on and is that the only bolt holding on that mount? Does the tensioner pulley setup have to come off as well or can I leave that on?

Thanks SO much for the help!

**Scottydoggs** · 08-14-2013

Originally Posted by Tsquared150

So is it that bolt that is to the right of the water pump kind of set in a little? It that holding on that mount the pulley sits on and is that the only bolt holding on that mount? Does the tensioner pulley setup have to come off as well or can I leave that on?

Thanks SO much for the help!

you just made me confused......take the pulley off, its # 9 on the list in the pic, aka the one that is blocking the long water pump bolt.

you also need to take the power steering pump off as well or the long bolt on the other side wont come off either. you'll see its hanging there in my pic.

**Tsquared150** · 08-14-2013

That's my problem, I can't get the pulley off. I took off the bolt in the middle of the pulley that is in the way, but the pulley will not come off the mount that is holding it on. How do I get that off?

I thought maybe I have to take that mount off, which is why I was referring to a different bolt that appears to be holding the mount the pulley is on, not just the pulley

**Scottydoggs** · 08-14-2013

the pulley should fall off after the its center bolt is removed. try giving it a tap from behind.

ive not done it, but i do believe the pulley stand comes off.

**TomOfTarsus** · 09-18-2013

Gents:

It's 10:00 at night, the pump is off - yes, it's a 10-post jerk barging in asking for help...

Through various internet sources, I've gathered up a procedure, but one thing I didn't see mentioned here is thread sealant for the longer bolts. This fellow about 30 seconds in says to use Permatex teflon thread sealant paste on the threads of the longer bolts as they extend into the water jacket. Certainly something was on the threads to begin with, I can see that - it's a hardened light colored compound, won't even come out with the wire wheel on the grinder.

And I don't have any, and I'd like to get the car back on the road ASAP, I have to work in the morning. But I do have Permatex RTV black, and also some gray RTV thermostat and water pump gasket maker. Has anybody substituted these in a pinch? Or should I know better?

FWIW, I note that this has been a little easier than I thought. However, so far I've

Loosened the 4 pulley screws on the water pump
Loosened both serpentine belts
removed the coolant overflow reservoir
removed the cover from the fuse block, removed the nut holding the block, and twister tied it to the diagonal fender brace (every inch helps - you should disconnect the + battery terminal as well)
removed the pulley on the supercharger serpentine just below the tensioner pulley (#9 in the pic above)
removed the power steering pump - actually just removed the two bolts holding it and moved it out of the way enough to get to the lower left bolt (#4 in the pic above - 13 mm socket through the pulley, screws are at the 1:00 and 7:00 position)
mentally cussed out the design engineers that can't seem to keep things like that out of the bloody way (and I AM one...)
mopped up a bunch of antifreeze that didn't manage to find the pan under the car...

And now I need to go back together and I don't have freakin' Permatex thread sealant. How about regular hardware store teflon paste? I think I have some of that. And, if anybody's hanging around that happens to know any torque values for going back together, I'd sure appreciate it. I'll try to note socket sizes and put them here for the next guy...

Thanks,

Tom

**Scottydoggs** · 09-18-2013

pretty much any pipe paste type thread sealant will work. rtv should work if your really stuck.

**TomOfTarsus** · 09-18-2013

Thanks much! I've decided it'll have to wait until morning. BTW mine's a 2003 GTP.

Tom

**TomOfTarsus** · 09-19-2013

So digging around I've found two torque specs for the water pump bolts - 15 ft-lb + 40° for the longs and 11 ft-lb + 80° for the shorts (i.e. torque-to-yield specs) or 25 ft-lb for the long, 16 ft-lb for the short. I kinda find it hard to believe that water pump bolts would be TTY. Still, using the simple formula gives 25 ft-lb as the max torque for an 8mm coarse thread grade 8.8 screw, and only 11 ft-lb for the other (but that's using 6 mm, and the male threads were 6.2 mm diameter after removal... closer to 1/4 inch). These are metric, right? My metric sockets worked, the English did not.

Thanks all,

Tom

**addzradd** · 09-19-2013

All the bolts on this car are metric. But most have found that good and snug works just fine for this project.

**TomOfTarsus** · 09-19-2013

Aaaaaaannnnnnd.... that wasn't it. I had a sneaky little leak in that &**$@%*& plastic elbow from the LIM to the alternator/heater manifold bracket. And I had to get plastic again. NAPA lists an aluminum one, but not in stock. yi yi yi, off to find a thread about that...

Thanks, everyone...

**tms8582** · 09-19-2013

I've just use a tad of back rtv on the water pump bolts. I just tightened the bolts by feel using a smaller 3/8 drive socket wrench so I can't over tighten. Just read your leaky elbow problem.... You can get the metal ones at Advanced Auto parts by my house. Be careful taking the elbows out as they often break and the piece in the motor is tough to get out.

**addzradd** · 09-19-2013

Go to autozone, they carry the dorman aluminum ones. usually have like 20 in stock.

**BillBoost37** · 09-19-2013

FWIW I'm pretty sure my FSM says 10ft lbs on the 10mm bolts, and 13ft lbs on the 13mm bolts.

**TomOfTarsus** · 09-20-2013

Thank you all again. I had to go back with the plastic elbow, but I'm wondering if aluminum would make much of a difference - it was the O-rings that had allowed the leak, the elbow was intact. Dumb thing, though, the parts store guy says a local garage is ordering them all the time...

But I'm good an not leaking anymore, so thanks again all. FWIW, i was able to get 25 ft-lb on the larger bolts and 11 on the smaller

**Phlip77** · 09-20-2013

Originally Posted by TomOfTarsus

Thank you all again. I had to go back with the plastic elbow, but I'm wondering if aluminum would make much of a difference - it was the O-rings that had allowed the leak, the elbow was intact. Dumb thing, though, the parts store guy says a local garage is ordering them all the time...

But I'm good an not leaking anymore, so thanks again all. FWIW, i was able to get 25 ft-lb on the larger bolts and 11 on the smaller

From everything I've seen in these forums. You should go with the aluminum elbows when you can as the plastics ones will fail on you it's just a matter of when.