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09-29-2008
looking to run a meth kit. already have it, dont say oooOOooo youll get no gains and it kills your top end, waahhh.
i dont want to use the throttle body spacer i have for a couple of reasons and i got to staring at a blower case that i have been porting on the side. has anyone ever tapped the case to use some spray/meth/etc? i was unsure if while i was threading in a pipe tap if it would end up cracking the casing, which i would like to avoid.
09-29-2008
The only place I can think of that you could tap in such a way would be around where the TB mounts. Ive never seen it done though.
09-29-2008
exactly. i would be putting it around 2-3:00 if you were looking into the inlet. im debating on just putting it in the TB after the MAF and before the throttle plate too.
i dont know what i want to do, hah.
09-29-2008
before the throttle plate, after the maf, that's where you need to put it. That way it goes through the blower mixes in with everything and at the same time has a cooling effect on the rotors and whatnot. hehe, i found you on a different forum! i'm Cornburnin' over there at clubgp.
09-29-2008
hah, yep. been ranting with you a little over there already.
im still leaning towards tapping the case. i dont see why it wouldnt work just fine as long as i dont crack it while im tapping it.
09-29-2008
Cases are pretty cheap these days, I have one just sitting here but it's not ported.
Ever think about just tapping into the LIM? I've seen it done and I think it would be more beneficial than before the rotors. You can only do so much until the rotors take that air and heat it up again. By spraying after the rotors with a bit bigger nozzle, you would see better gains imo. worth a thought.
If you do tap into it, the 1/2 oclock would be good but you could place it the middle above where it ramps to the rotors.
I would say it doesn't matter where you try and tap it to get a better mixture, the rotors would take care of that.
09-29-2008
yeah, i get the whole after the blower would be better thing since it would basically be an intercooler, but i dont see any good way of spraying into the LIM without having an uneven distribution unless i made a phenolic spacer like zzp sells and run a spray bar through it. that seems like a lot more work than i want to get into. in that case i should have just ran the SSIC i just sold, hah.
i just want a good place to tap the nozzle into. i have a throttle body spacer, but im thinking about trying to stay away from using it just because its just another area for a vacuum leak and i dont like how im going to have to tap it since the nozzle itself is not long enough to thread through the whole thing. id have to use the spacer itself as the flow path.
09-29-2008
I still don't see how spraying it through the rotors has a worse effect than after?
A) It atomizes with the air and mixes almost perfectly with one nozzle
B) When the rotors heat the mix up that means the mix is taking the heat out, hence an inter cooling effect and cooling the blower at the same time. That is what you want right? a cooling effect?
C) It's easier to install no taking off the blower, no taking off the manifold, and less chance of error.
D) it's out of vacuum so you don't need a one way valve to add to the chances of something failing/leaking especially straight into the motor...?
There are many more reason's why to put it before the blower and not after. If you think this is going to be anywhere near as efficient as an intercooler you're very wrong. This is merely just going to be an octane booster depending on what you use, and a minor intercooling system. This is like misting a red hot piece of metal, where as an intercooler is like submerging the piece of metal right into the water. I don't see how doing all that work to drill and tap a manifold knowing it's not as efficient as going through the blower can even be an option? It also will take up the little bit of space between the rotors and make the supercharger that much more efficient. Many positives, not so many negatives.... Oh and the myth of the alky taking off the Teflon lol, do a little reading and see what it takes to strip Teflon.
Say you are standing in front of a fan (the blower) and you spray a mist of water at it, what happens? It blows the water back into your face and all over right? Now stand behind the fan and do the same thing, what happens? That's what you want, a mix of the air and the alky together going in the same direction.
09-29-2008
after the blower it would act more as an intercooler by far. before is more of an octane boost, after is a cooling effect.
im just going to go before the blower just for ease of install, but otherwise after would be the most beneficial.
09-29-2008
explain that to me please, i would really like to understand how that is better?Originally Posted by Bio248
09-29-2008
the meth is going to have a cooling effect if used after the blower. if it is before, its just heated up with the intake charge. its as simple as that.
09-29-2008
i know i'm talking to you on two different forums but either way i gotta argue with this because it doesn't make any sense lol, have you ever done any real life testing?
ok, your right the air that is taken in by the engine is going to heat up the meth to ambient temperatures, which is what the meth is kept in unless you plan on keeping it in a cooler? That doesn't make any sense and just so you know, after the meth get's heated up to (lets say 100 degrees because it's hot outside) after it goes through the blower its going to be in the mid 200's so honestly the ambient temperature doesn't matter what it does to the meth ITS THAT SIMPLE. what you are saying doesn't make any sense!
ok another example so you hopefully grasp my point....
take a hair dryer, blows really hot air out of it right? ok, take a spray bottle full of water and spray it at the front of the dryer, what do you think will happen? ok, now spray that same amount of water through the blow dryer from the intake side what happens? (besides getting shocked lol) The air coming out will be cooler, because you aren't shooting the cool water at the air, you are mixing it. Do you understand yet? When they mix the water atomizes into steam which is the water absorbing the heat. The water can't absorb the heat when you spray it at the blow dryer because it doesn't have time to mix and atomize. When you spray it before the water mixes with the air before it reaches the "hot" part and atomizes as soon as it gets heated therefore taking the "hot" out.
09-29-2008
It takes a lot of energy to vaporize water (as it does to melt ice). It takes the same amount of energy to heat a gram of water (high heat of vaporization) 5.4*C as it does simply to change state from water to vapor. One of the best parts of using it before the blower is that steam greatly expands from the volume occupied from water. This increases boost somewhat artificially by expanding as it enters the combustion chamber, raising pressures in the combustion chamber, and increasing downward force on the piston, thus creating more torque.
09-29-2008
the way im thinking about it is that either way its going to cool the air a little and add as an octane boost. if put in after the blower, would it not cool slightly more since its not getting heated up by the blower?
09-29-2008
But it isn't getting atomized to fully absorb the heat of the charge and change states. As it atomizes and mixes, it increases the "surface area" of the fluid to absorb more heat more quickly. And, at the rate things move through the intake runners, it has to happen fast.
09-29-2008
Kills top end? shoot.....I gained 3mph on the top end.
FWIW I have mine shooting into the throttle body...I run an LS1 so it's in the coupler behind the MAF. M10 nozzle and full bore Methanol is the way to go. Give her all she'll drink.
09-29-2008
Where can you get straight methanol these days? I've heard its got significant gains over the 50/50, but saw no proof yet.
I still hold a certain belief that spraying after the rotors would be better, but thats considering a different intake/LIM setup than ours. If it was really better to spray before the rotors, why wouldn't the turbo guys be spraying the turbo or literally right before the turbo? Or is it just that I'm too tired right now and not thinking right... I'm sure the charge has plenty of time to mix when spraying after the turbo too, though.
mmmm METH...
09-29-2008
ahh that's a good question why not right before the turbo, well lets start with obvious reasons first. The turbo doesn't sit right on top of the manifold for starters, and it usually blows through an intercooler because intercoolers are a good idea (gm) and that's a long way to carry a mixture. Usually turbo guys will spray it before the throttle body which still gives it plenty of time to mix up with the air before getting to the motor. Turbo's are far more efficient than an m90 hence why a turbo gp will run 11's with just a turbo kit and some rockers. Now if you were to intercool an m90 then it's not about using the meth to cool its about using the meth to increase the octane. Then i would run some type of direct port meth injection if i were to go that route but i'd rather just pump in some e85 and go on my way. That's an awful lot of work for a little more octane. Plus depending on an alky injection system to run more boost is ballzy. If that ever fails you got yourself some pissed off pistons. See if my stuff ever fails i use is purely for timing, so my computer can pull timing out until i let off the throttle and investigate what happened. My aeroforce is programmed to set the warning lights as soon as i've hit .5 kr or higher and i'm happy to say it never lights up! Even on 21* of timing and a 3.2 pulley. That there is called a good tune! However every time i got to the track i'm cursed so i've never gotten a full run with everything working properly! it's very frustrating!
Meth will give great benefits in 100% mix it's pure science. It's a higher octane, so the more higher octane you run the harder it is to ignite the mixture, and you know what that means right? I can get meth at my local racetrack or you can get it online from places that sell race gas. I personally don't have a place to store meth so i don't order it. I just save the tune that i use when i do have it and load it right in. Most of the time you'll see me running water/windshield washer fluid since it's easy to find and cheap.
09-29-2008
You can get straight meth at a truck stop. It's called air line antifreeze.
09-29-2008
really!?!?!?
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