Because I'm banned on Clubgp, I'll take the time to help inform our community over here about some of the questions presented about the M112 Hybrid from this thread ClubGP Message Forum troubleshooting
Firstly, I'm a ZZP distributor. After displaying great interest in the project, ZZP allowed me to purchase their remaining Hybrid technology off of them when they discontinued the product. Over the past 2 years, I've been able to experiment with the units and have sold a half dozen.
Why it works: The real theory that the doubters shown in that thread like Mat Tallman base their opinions on (and I say theory because very few have actual experience with the Hybrid chargers) is that the extension plates used to equipe the M90 housing with M112 components does not allow the outlet position to account for the new rotor size, and that spoils the gains.
Discuss the outlets all you want, the real drawback of the roots chargers is the inlet. The rotors need to create a vacuum to draw air through the inlet from the air filter, in order to compress it and move it forward. The S-bend of the factory GenIII inlet is a real restriction.
What the longer rotors do is create increased vacuum to help draw air through the air inlet and to the rotors so it can be moved forward. Despite the outlet position, the Hybrids do move a lot more air than their M90 counterparts in the exact same case.
How well does it work: I had two nearly identical vehicles built for customers. The first was an 04 CompG with its GenV M90, a ZZP Intercooler, my SBC camshaft with 1.7 rockers, TOG headers and 3" exhaust. The second was an 04 Monte Carlo with an M112 GenIII based Hybrid, 75mm Northstar TB, ZZP Intercooler, my SBC camshaft with 1.7 rockers, TOG headers and a 3" exhaust. Same injectors, I did the tuning etc, basically from the Intercooler to the tip on the tailpipe they were identical cars.
The CompG ran a 2.55" and produced 14-15psi. The Monte Carlo ran a 2.9" pulley and produced a solid 15psi. A 3" would likely have put it at the same boost levels as the GenV on a 2.55", a difference of .45". The Monte Carlo on its M90 (WHICH USED THE SAME CASE UTILIZED IN THE M112) put out 12-13psi on a 2.55"; the Hybrid to run that boost would have needed to go up to around a 3.25" pulley, a difference of .7" pulley size.
We were going to dyno both the same day but didn't get finished intime. They raced instead on a deserted road and the Monte won 3 times in a row. Now I was a big fan of my customer's CompG setup, ran very strong, but the Monte was a solid winner when the two raced that day.
Can the Hybrid be used in a GenV M90 case? Has this been tried?
Yes it has, two GenV based M112 Hybrids were produced and tested, one is on my own personal vehicle
The other is on a good customer of mine's GTP which produced 386whp in street trim on pump gas.
They work well but the difference wasnt as big as I expected. The straight inlet on the GenV works wonders for the M90 rotors ability to draw air into the rotors and is beneficial to the M112 as well but not exponentially as much.
A GenV M112 produces the same boost on ~.2" larger pulley than its GenIII counterpart. In order to best take advantage of the difference .2" pulley allows, a lower compression stroker motor, an overly large camshaft or perhaps the new ZZP aluminum heads would need to be utilized. It isn't on my vehicle with an L36 high compression block, modest camshaft and consistent street trim and pump gas, but it's still a lot of fun.
Are these available, how can I purchase one?
Although it says on our website that we are machining the components required, truth is we may discontinue our use of the Hybrid technology. Simple fact is we've had to jump from machinist to machinist without any reliable source for having the plates made; many of our projects have been shelved for this reason.
The current strength of the Canadian dollar also makes it cost prohibitive for us to manufacture anything north of the border for resale back to the American market; anyone manufacturing in the US has significant cost advantages.
Core components are also becoming older and harder to find in good shape. We use M112s specifically off of Ford Lightning and Mustang Cobra applications because of their snout lengths. These vehicles weren't plentifully made, and while owners loved to swap out their low mile M112s for Whipples and put them on ebay, we see much less of that these days as those cars age. So cores are going to become potentially cheaper but will require rebuilding.
We did sell a set of plates to a customer who decided to reverse engineer the plates and resell them himself. He can be found on these boards as well as clubgp. Whether he proves to be a reliable source for Hybrid technology, we'll let you guys find out.
I do know who has the skills and resources to fabricate the parts needed, and that's TrannyMan. We'll be sending TripleEdgePerformance a set of plates, and if Dave is interested in the project we know he'll be a reliable source, and as an affiliate of ours he'll have our support.
Originally Posted by WillOverkill
