Thread: Cat Removal Question

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  1. #1 Cat Removal Question 
    GTX Level Member kjohnson's Avatar
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    Hey guys I did some reading about this and got a little confused but I will tell you todays story first.

    I took my car in because my cat plugged up. When they told me what was wrong I said cool put in a new one and call me when it is done. They called me today and said that your car is done and we saved you $150 and deleted your cat. I still don't know how happy I am about this. I am much more into making a car look and sound nice. Not so much motor things.

    Now my question is about fuel mileage. I have read something about 01+ grand prix running really rich when you remove the cat without doing anything about the 02 sensor. Something about it running rich to see how the emissions 02 (rear) responds to see if the cat is faulty or not. I have an 03 so I am wondering how this works. It doesn't matter to me if I spend the 150 if my mileage is going to go down since I put a lot of miles on this car.

    Also I have only driven it about five miles but the service engine light has not come on yet so I don't know what that is about.

    Sorry I didn't understand the other posts completely so I am looking for insight and advise regarding getting a new one installed or not.



    Also I live in Iowa so emissions are not a concern but how about selling the car without one. Will a dealer give you a hard time about it?
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  2. #2 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GrandPrix Junkie ItHurtz's Avatar
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    You can get a free cat installed if you threaten to call the EPA about the removal of your functioning cat . No shop in the 50 states can legally REMOVE a catalytic converter WITHOUT installing a working one. Does not matter if you have emissions testing or not.
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  3. #3 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GrandPrix Junkie CTKGP09's Avatar
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    if you want a cat, buy a $60 dollar magnaflow, they are awesome. if you don't then the 01+ guys will have to chime in because i've only owned pre 01 cars and said F dealing with that stuff
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  4. #4 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GTX Level Member industrialfish's Avatar
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    Also, check to see if your light is still working...
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  5. #5 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GTX Level Member kjohnson's Avatar
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    Industrialfish It defiantly is still working, I have even made it flash a few times recently........Thats good right? JKJK

    I am defiantly going to throw a man sized fit tomorrow. I can't decide if I am going to walk in with the part that I need and watch them install it or tell them they are getting me one for free. I can get the bolt on magna flow through my brothers work for 150 after tax. That is the price they quoted me for a cat which I am sure they were just going to weld in.
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  6. #6 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GTX Level Member kjohnson's Avatar
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    can someone find a link to something that says they cannot remove this part legally? I have been looking but haven't had much luck.
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  7. #7 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GTP Level Member 231FUN's Avatar
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    A PCM tuned to have the cat test not run would also solve the problem and possibly gain you some mpg if thats what your goal is.
    The CEL won't turn on till after two full drive cycles, on the first drive cycle the PCM will store the issue as pending and on the second it will turn on the CEL if the problem persists.
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  8. #8 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GrandPrix Junkie ItHurtz's Avatar
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    The act of removing a catalytic converter without replacing it with an approved replacement (known as "tampering") is illegal under federal law and is of great concern to EPA because of the high pollution levels that are emitted by vehicles without properly functioning emission controls. The original antitampering law was part of the Clean Air Act of 1970; it applied only to manufacturers and car dealers. The antitampering law was expanded by the 1977 Clean Air Act Amendments to apply to all automobile repair facilities, commercial mechanics, and fleet operators. And the 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments (CAAA) broadened the tampering provision even further; it now applies to everyone, including car owners. Here is the text from the 1990 CAAA:
    "Section 288 – Enforcement: (b) TAMPERING WITH VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROLS –
    (1) Section 203(a)(3) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3)) is amended to read as follows:
    '(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
    '(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use; or '
    (2) At the end of section 203(a) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)) insert the following:
    'No action with respect to any device or element of design referred to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair or replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure, and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action with respect to any device or element of design referred to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined in this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if in the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by rule by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced upon completion of the conversion procedure and such action results in proper functioning of the device or element when the motor vehicle operates on conventional fuel.'."
    The resale of a vehicle which has already had the catalytic converter removed is not specifically addressed by federal law. Therefore, the person who removed the converter violated federal law, but not necessarily the person who sold the vehicle. However, the sale of vehicles that have had the emission control system removed, disabled, or tampered with may be further governed by state or local laws.
    http://www.epa.gov/
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  9. #9 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GrandPrix Junkie ItHurtz's Avatar
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    2000 GTPT Sold-brandonhall10 built trans
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  10. #10 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GTX Level Member kjohnson's Avatar
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    Thank you! Tomorrow will be filled with fun conversations between me and the mechanic.

    Thank you again for all of the help
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  11. #11 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GrandPrix Junkie ItHurtz's Avatar
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    Dont forget to mention the $25,000 fine they will receive if a brand new cat isnt welded in
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  12. #12 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    I live here. Slick2500's Avatar
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    As far as the car dumping fuel if the rear o2 sensor is in there still don't worry about it, it will just trip the CEL with code p0420. The cat diagnostic test only dumps fuel when the rear o2 is not there. Im running a hi flow cat in my car and my CEL is on with code p0420 and my fuel trims are just fine. As long as they put in a decent pipe just get 2 spark plug non foulers and drill one out then put it inside the other then put the rera o2 in that if you dont want a CEL.
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  13. #13 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    Moderator dsmuts's Avatar
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    Just tune the code out
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  14. #14 Re: Cat Removal Question 
    GTX Level Member kjohnson's Avatar
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    Well I went in today and got the cat installed and had them replace the resonator with standard 2.5 inch pipe. I did loose a little throat y ness but that may also have been because it was leaking like a sive. Got it done for $130 and I drove the owners car 30 miles one way to work.

    He didn't want me to but I won
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