Thread: help a newbie beat the ricer squad

S&S headers are in no way too small for a top-swapped motor. 90+% of the the people with M90's do NOT need the 3" downpipe that comes with the other header options available to us, myself included. Ron is about to bust 11's with S&S headers and the stock camshaft, another member is running 114+ mph traps with his S1X/Gen 5/IC GTP. There's plenty of head room with S&S headers, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I got caught up in the "OMG TOG's rock!" mentality and they hurt my bottom end a great deal when I was N/A. I picked up one mph in the 1/4 but actually lost a tenth, despite and identical 60', because the car was so soft at the bottom of the gears.

My opinion:

Do it right the first time. If you know you'll be doing a top swap in the future, do mods now that support those goals or just start buying the parts now, although to run the stock 3.8 you'll need a few mods anyway.

The intake is your choice, but I really like my Wizair. It seemed to produce great results and will work well for both a N/A and supercharged application.

Here's another option that many seem to like: http://www.grandprixforums.net/f73/4...take-2219.html

From there I'd jump straight to the S&S headers with a high flow cat while keeping the stock cat-back. You'll get a bit more volume from the exhaust while maintaining a stock-ish sound, just like you wanted. The stock exhaust is fairly small and will preserve that feeling of low end grunt, but won't be restrictive to you for quite awhile.

From there it's time to pick up a tuner and learn how to use it. You have more room for error without boost, so if you're going to try things out and learn the ropes, now is the time to do it.

With just those few mods you should be knocking on 14's if you have some good conditions and get a decent launch, and you won't have wasted any money on mods that you'll have to sell off once the blower is on the car.

Originally Posted by mexico

ok I think Ill go with a 2.5DP and Plog. just to clarify, the powerlog is specifically made for n/a to increase power without loss of torque right? there are dynos on zzp but I dont know if its on a l67 or l36.

It's made for either L36 or L67 to be better than a ported factory manifold. Not quite as great as headers, but nowhere near as expensive. Good middle ground.

Their dynos (if measured in WHP as they claim) would appear to be an already modded L67. Too high for stock L67, and way too high for a lot of modded L36s. The L36 starts off making ~160WHP.

Originally Posted by mexico

Btw sabrewing, the engine in my car is an out of an '02 impala ; )

Then it's probably identical to the 3800 offered in the 02 GP GT. The only differences in the Series IIs the Impalas received is 04-05 they were hybrid Series II/III engines.

Originally Posted by Bio248

why are s&s too small for a top swap? has anyone outflowed them yet? no one knows becuase everyone just buys the big stuff thinking it was better either way. ron vogel hasnt hit the limits on them yet, i dont see them being that bad of a restriction. he's running almost flat 12s.

Maybe it's my mentality, but if I go top swap I want headers for a S/C application. Not just N/A headers that "will do" for the time being. But, I digress.

Also keep in mind, if I were to top swap it'd be rebuilt heads, cleaned and inspected bottom end, most valve train parts (save for lifters, maybe) brand new, etc. I don't half ass anything.

Originally Posted by Coogles

Do it right the first time. If you know you'll be doing a top swap in the future, do mods now that support those goals or just start buying the parts now, although to run the stock 3.8 you'll need a few mods anyway.

The point I was trying to make.

Originally Posted by Coogles

The intake is your choice, but I really like my Wizair. It seemed to produce great results and will work well for both a N/A and supercharged application.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by mexico

btw Im still trying to find dynos on an l36 with that setup tho. any links? oh and what might be the best way to learn how to use a tuner?

None that I know of that are readily available to view, but the gains would be similar on a L36 as a L67. Both use the same stock front manifold.

For learning to tune, I would buy a HP Tuner and go to their forums. A lot of our members frequent there and bring back a wealth of information. I would buy one, but it's just not the right time yet.

just check out the write up i have going it can be found hear for the cold air intake it is simple as it gets
http://www.grandprixforums.net/f73/4...take-2219.html

It's made for either L36 or L67 to be better than a ported factory manifold. Not quite as great as headers, but nowhere near as expensive. Good middle ground.

The combined cost of both a DP and a PLOG begins to approach the cost of a set of headers. If you know for sure you are going to do a top swap then why not just do it right the first time?

1. gas prices
2.I kinda want to do the swap myself but definitely need more knowledge and experience so I figured a way to gain both would be to do mods on n/a right now(in hopes of beating the ricers) and when I am ready to do the swap I will do it myself(with my mechanic friends help of course)

1.) My MPG really did not change all that much. I lost maybe 1-1.5 MPG after the install mostly because of how hard I drive my car now. If you drive somewhat reasonably you should be able to pull off gas mileage comparable to the mileage you are seeing now. But then of course you have to factor in the cost of premium

2.) Another option you have in the ZZP SS M90 kit https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_...=382&catid=109 . Its going to wind up being more expensive but it is also a helluva lot easier to install. Id advise agianst buying any NA oriented mods (2.5" DP, ER rockers, HV3, etc) so that you wont be out any money, and so that when the time comes for the topswap you wont be having to change out a bunch of different parts.