Thread: help a newbie beat the ricer squad

Originally Posted by mexico

1st:will the DP destroy my low end like every one says? where I live there is quite a bit of stop signs and as it is I already piss everyone off because I dont want to waste gas going 3500rpm at every stop.
-will the res delete help or hurt my cause?

No, the DP won't affect your low end torque much. Headers do, but that since their primaries are so large.

Originally Posted by mexico

2nd: I like the sound of the stock exhaust but some extra decibels cant hurt but how might I avoid that riceburning sound?

Magnaflows sound good on the 3800. I have a pair of Magnaflows, DP, and no res and it sounds great IMHO.

Originally Posted by mexico

3rd: I like the Idea of designing an intake myself with an airbox and all but I am scared TO Death of what someone said here http://www.grandprixforums.net/custom_cai_2.php

I would love to do something like that in my car but how the heck do I avoid losing mileage! I really dont want to spend a bunch of time on my car if I am not going to be able to afford to drive it!!

What scares you, the MPG part? Cooler air means less MPG, but more HP. Simple fact.

Originally Posted by mexico

-you know that little sensor that plugs into the rubber intake section (stock) coming off the the throttlebody? does it have to be in that exact spot? if I put something else in place of that section how would you recommend doing it, and where and how would I mount that sensor?

On my Wizaired it's part of the intake box. They made a grommet for it. You can see the wire running to it, as well as the tip of the sensor through the window here:

Originally Posted by mexico

Why do so many people tell me that getting a cai will improve mileage?

Depends on how one is set up. People use "CAI" (cold air intake) to refer to a lot of types of intakes. What a lot of people refer to as a "cold air intake" are not. They're just pipe coming off the throttle body with an open cone. This does not provide cold air and in fact provides warmer air than the factory setup.

The warmer air with less restriction does improve MPG by a few on the highway. A true CAI or FWI (fender-well intake) will provide your engine with cooler air and less restriction. The cooler air will give you more power, and hopefully the less restriction will balance out the MPG loss, but not always. I lost a few highway MPG with my WizAired, but the throttle response and improved top end is worth it.

Sabrewings, have you scanned your IAT's with the sensor in that location?

I did scan and found that there is little to no air flow in that part of the box. This lack of flow creates a hot region. I let Jim at easyperformance know about my findings and he sent me an extension. With the extension I could put the sensor about mid way down the filter element so it could more accurately read the incoming air.

on topic to the OP. When I had my 05 Impala 3.8 na, I did a CAI, and 3" DP. It definitely killed my lowend torque and my MPG instantly dropped. I was getting 28 MPG on the hiway before the DP and immediately after it dropped to 21 MPH. The combination of loss of tq and mpg was quite frustrating. I'm sure that kind of mpg result is rare but none the less happened to me. The loss of lowend tq however is NOT that uncommon.

Originally Posted by IndeedSS

Sabrewings, have you scanned your IAT's with the sensor in that location?

I did scan and found that there is little to no air flow in that part of the box. This lack of flow creates a hot region. I let Jim at easyperformance know about my findings and he sent me an extension. With the extension I could put the sensor about mid way down the filter element so it could more accurately read the incoming air.

Not scanned yet as my Aeroforce gauge is in the mail. I take it you ran the extension to the filter neck and made a hole there?

And, I should note, I have a 2.5" DP and didn't notice any losses at all, but in fact gains throughout the power band.

Originally Posted by Sabrewings

Not scanned yet as my Aeroforce gauge is in the mail. I take it you ran the extension to the filter neck and made a hole there?

And, I should note, I have a 2.5" DP and didn't notice any losses at all, but in fact gains throughout the power band.

I just fed it through the Wizaired PM strap and have it on the outside of the edge of the filter. Your idea of putting it in the filter neck is a good one, however, I have my stuff out so often testing things, it may be came a pain. I like it though. If the tubing were stout enough right before the TB opening would be ideal, but is not the case, unfortunately. If I had a shorter filter I would have installed it in the end of the filter, like some K&N's come stock.

Having a scanner ahead of time, allowed me to not only feel the difference from adding a DP, but allowed me to see the differences based on throttle postion. If you push the pedal farther you can overcome the tq loss. However I'm talking same throttle versus same throttle. I'm also that oddball that rarely has the radio on because it prevents me from listening for changes. OCD, probably.

Perhaps since you went with a 2.5" DP instead of a 3" may have made all of the difference. One thing to note, that tq loss was not only felt on my 05 LS but on the SS as well. Fortunately for me the SS didn't experience the MPG loss that the LS did.

When I put in my DP, the best part was the low end at first. Sure, some high end was there, but in parking lots it felt like I could barely touch it and she'd want to lurch forward. Took a little getting used to.

I already sent my stocker back for the $50, so there's no going back to scan.

1st:will the DP destroy my low end like every one says? where I live there is quite a bit of stop signs and as it is I already piss everyone off because I dont want to waste gas going 3500rpm at every stop.
-will the res delete help or hurt my cause?

Once you are top-swapped a 3" DP should suit you just fine but.......

headers would be even better

2nd: I like the sound of the stock exhaust but some extra decibels cant hurt but how might I avoid that riceburning sound?

I have catless pacesetters, to straight 2.5" pipe, to dual flowmaster delta 40's. It doesnt sound horrible, but it doesnt exactly sound great either. It sounds really good at idle but can be a little droney at the lower RPM's. But remember that you will have quite the time attempting to find a 3800 exhaust that sounds good all the way through the RPM range.

3rd: I like the Idea of designing an intake myself with an airbox and all but I am scared TO Death of what someone said here http://www.grandprixforums.net/custom_cai_2.php

I just went to Home Depot and picked up a 3" to 4" rubber coupler and a 22.5* 4" PVC elbow for $8. I then put a 4x7 K&N on there and called it a day. Its not the prettiest intake out there, but its good enough for me.

Headers are going to kill your low end torque. Much worse than a DP ever could. Get a 2.5" DP with a Powerlog.

ok so theoretically if i made an intake setup where the box could b removed when im not trying to go fast would it allow warm air and more flow and improve mileage? as far as exhaust, would headers with stock DP and ubend delete perhaps improve throttle response w/o mileage loss?

A new intake will most definitely increase airflow over the stock airbox. And yes the new intake should increase MPG at least a little bit as well. I really didnt notice any difference in my MPG. Any increase in MPG that i may have experienced was most likely negated by the way in which i drive my car every time i put something new on .

The headers are going to replace your stock DP and ubend and bolt right up to the stock catback. I went from stock manifolds and DP to the headers and I noticed a big performance increase. But you probably shouldnt consider headers until you know for a fact that you are going to do a top swap. You probably wont benefit all that much from headers being NA with no valvetrain mods.

IMO, and this might get someone angry, Grand prixs low end just sucks and i dont want to make worse!

I bet your opinion is gonna change once you bolt a blower on there.

Headers are going to kill your low end torque. Much worse than a DP ever could. Get a 2.5" DP with a Powerlog.

**see above post**

headers dont kill your low end. these cars have like eleventy billion times more torque than horsepower anyway, so why gives a crap if you lose a few ft-lbs.

dont tell people things that arent true.

Originally Posted by Bio248

headers dont kill your low end. these cars have like eleventy billion times more torque than horsepower anyway, so why gives a crap if you lose a few ft-lbs.

dont tell people things that arent true.

You're supercharged. It's a different world for the L36.

Everyone at NAIOA who has put headers on their L36 regretted it and took them back off. When they dyno'd with a Plog and DP they saw gains over the headers. It was a significant loss. The only reason to buy headers is if you're planning a top swap, but in the mean time you will lose low end with questionable high end gains over a Plog and DP.

I have the 2.5" DP with the Plog soon to come, and we just had a member install a Plog. Tons of members are running the combo with great results.

If you want a lot of good L36 info, head over to North American Impala Owners Association . We have a higher ratio of L36 to L67 owners and you find more info catered to us there.

dude, seriously, youve got it all wrong. youll lose a little grunt down low, never said you wouldnt. but the sheer fact that the amount lost is so minimal that it doesnt mean much. these cars make more torque than needed, we can all tell that by how much we spin our tires. even n/a, headers will make more power.

honestly, the s&s headers are THE best set of headers to buy for the n/a motor, if not the supercharged as well. it retains the smaller primaries in order to retain velocity and they allow a huge flow increase over even the powerlog and ported manifolds.

my car is a gt, i know how it runs. i just wanted the booooost to help.

Originally Posted by Bio248

honestly, the s&s headers are THE best set of headers to buy for the n/a motor, if not the supercharged as well. it retains the smaller primaries in order to retain velocity and they allow a huge flow increase over even the powerlog and ported manifolds.

That is a point I forgot to make. Until recently there weren't many options for headers for the N/A, so we had to use the L67 headers. That still raises the question, going to those headers limits you options down the road. The primaries are too small for a top swap, and you can't add a turbo.

The reason I posted above is why I left CGP a long time ago. Everyone assumes what works for a L67 works for the L36. The Impala LS (L36) is a lot more common than the Impala SS (L67), so we have a ton of experience with it that the GTP members never seemed to understand. Didn't mean to come off on you like that, just bad memories.

why are s&s too small for a top swap? has anyone outflowed them yet? no one knows becuase everyone just buys the big stuff thinking it was better either way. ron vogel hasnt hit the limits on them yet, i dont see them being that bad of a restriction. he's running almost flat 12s.