Coolant leaking, seems to be from timing cover

**UtahUtes** · 12-16-2019

Been a member for a couple of years, mainly lurk and look for tech help. GF has a 2008 Grand Prix with the NA series III. The car has always seeped a little coolant since I have been working on it. About a year ago I did the water pump and elbows. One of the elbows was cracked so I thought that I had the issue more or less taken care of even though it tended to seep coolant (I did put sealant on the water pump bolts when I installed them). Well two weeks ago it dumped most of the contents of the cooling system out at her work. We got it back to her garage where I could pour coolant in and just watch it p!ss out all over the ground. The elbows are dry and so is the gasket around the water pump. Leak seems to be coming from the timing cover. There is a film of dried up Dexcool at the interface of the cover and block on the top of the engine. There is no coolant in the oil so that made me feel a bit better. I understand that pulling the cover is quite a job and involves quite a bit of parts removal and a couple special tools (HB puller is one that comes to mind) and that I have to prime the oil pump. What I am looking for is if there is write up on the process on the forum somewhere. I did a search but came up empty. I have tried to find a shop manual or at least a YouTube video but also struck out there as well.
Perhaps I am looking in the wrong direction and maybe it is something simpler than the timing cover R&R. if I go in that far I may replace the timing chain as well along with anything else that may cause future issues (looking for advice on this point). Car has 198K miles on it but has always started, shifted and driven very well.
I can do the timing cover gaskets over the holiday break but I am not looking forward to wrenching in the cold unless I am certain this is the real issue.
Any advice, comments, questions are welcome.
Erik

**daviddawg** · 12-16-2019

Had my timing cover gasket done at the shop same as you losing coolent 700 bucks had to have it redone they screwed up the job next guy do do it said you need a special tool to bring the gasket through that how the first guy screwed up good luck bud hope you have better luck than me

**Scottydoggs** · 12-16-2019

being ive done a timing cover gasket, there is no special tool need to install the gasket, other then some rtv and a balancer puller with the proper bolts.

id just leave the timing chain alone. you never hear of them breaking. as far as priming the pump, meh, crank the engine over with the icm plug pulled out or the plug wires pulled off the coils if you feel you must.

your gonna pretty much pull the p/s pump off belts, icm bracket is likely in the way too. then unbolt the cover. dont forget the few bolts under the cover that go through the oil pan. remove the splash shield too. and im sure its best to pull the oil filter off too. and unplg the oil pressure sensor by the oil filter.

after the cover is off, clean the oil pan and block side good, make sure its clean and free of any old gasket or rtv.

before you put the new gasket in place rtv the pan and up the timing cover mating surface 2 inches, or to the pin if you like. then put the gasket in place and put more rtv on the gasket to the dowel and make sure the bottom corner at the pan is sealed up. then put the new cover back on. if you do need a new cover you'll need a new crank seal. check the balancer for a deep groove from the old seal. the new seal can leak if this is a deep groove, you can install a sleeve to make a new surface on the balancer. you only want a thin smear of rtv too. like 2mm thick.

theres a few more bolts that will need some thread sealant for the timing cover too. the bolt that holds the crank sensor gets tq'ed to 14 ft lb. the rest are german spec in my world. aka goodentight.

a good air gun is your friend for this job too. can be done with out but makes the balancer puller and the crank bolt removal way easier.

**Scottydoggs** · 12-16-2019

pic of the part # for a balancer sleeve if you need it.

**Scottydoggs** · 12-16-2019

https://oi1097.photobucket.com/album...psashf10yn.jpg

**markpa** · 12-17-2019

Scotty walked me through this a few years ago on my 2007 GT.

Should be a thread on that with some pics. I will try to find It.

No special tools except for the long bolts needed for the harmonic balancer puller.

I did it without air tools. Not too bad and felt great about saving $800.

Use a small vice grips on the driver side (through the inspection port on the bottom) to lock down the flywheel when taking the crank bolt off. I imagined that to be hard but was a piece of cake.

And use a fel pro gasket. I also would not mess with the timing chain. I think it took me 6-7 hours over two nights having never done one.

Fel-Pro TCS46077 Timing Cover Gasket Set Robot Check

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**markpa** · 12-17-2019

Bad water pump?
Bad water pump?

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**UtahUtes** · 12-17-2019

All,
Thank you for the replies, special thank you to Scottydoggs for the detailed write up. Not looking forward to doing this but the car is just not worth enough to take to a shop (I don't really trust shops much anyway).
I am very confident that the water pump is not the culprit here but I am going to take the bore scope and give it one final look tonight. The water pump is only a year old but I may just replace it as well since I am in there anyway along with the elbow O-rings (I already replaced these with the metal ones when I did the pump a year ago).
Again, thank you to all who replied I really appreciate the input.
Regards,
Erik

**bandook** · 12-19-2019

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**BillBoost37** · 12-20-2019

You'll also need to pull the alternator and it's bracket. The lower coolant elbow goes into the timing cover from the bracket. It's rather straightforward to do the cover. Be careful when getting the alt bracket off that you wiggle front to back (of the car) and not side to side (toward fenders). If a metal coolant elbow is in it...you can crack the timing cover at the elbow hole.

**UtahUtes** · 12-23-2019

Update: Weather was decent this weekend so I tore into it on Saturday. I got most of the disassembly done on Saturday. Needed a breaker bar and socket for the crank bolt so that put an end to Saturday's work day. Unfortunately the car is up in the Des Moines area and my shop is an hour away in SW Iowa but I ran over to work and borrowed those tools. Got the balance of the disassembly done on Sunday and started to reassemble everything. All I have left now is the water pump, PS pump, alternator bracket and that is it. Like mentioned above there is more room to work than at first glance. Overall not a bad repair, temps were in the high 40s (Iowa's weather is bipolar at times; well all the time really) and I had most to tools I needed in the kit I always carry with me in my commuter car. Should be back together by tomorrow and test driven.
Thanks to all for the input and advice!
Have a Merry Christmas!

**UtahUtes** · 01-06-2020

Update:
Well a couple weeks in and still is holding up so I think I got it taken care of. I contemplated changing the timing chain but it was not as loose as I first thought so I left it. We want to get another 12-18 months out of the car so I felt comfortable just leaving it. I did have some erosion on the cover from the coolant seeping out for as long as it did. I used some sandpaper and sanded the area down with decreasing grit sizes and blended it into the rest of the sealing surface. I went with the Felpro gasket set as that one was recommended on here. It is not a repair I would want to do very often and by the time I was done I probably had 12-14 hours into it (including surface prep). I tried to be meticulous as I did not want to do this twice. I can vouch for the need for M6 X 90mm long fasteners to pull the harmonic balancer. I was able to get a three pack at Fastenal for about $3 along with some 1/4" washers. These threaded right in finger tight and the balancer was relatively easy to remove. To remove the crank bolt I locked a breaker bar and impact socket on the A-arm and bumped the engine over. Bolt came right out. Before I started the car I pulled the connector from the coil pack and cranked the engine a bit to prime the oil pump.
Thanks again to everyone for their input and advice.
Erik