Thread: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing

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  1. #1 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    6 Speed FWD
    Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing


    According to Hydra-Matic specs,
    there will be four distinct variants
    (covering FWD, RWD, and AWD)
    launched in 25 different models this model year.


    When the Atomic Orange C6 convertible arrived,
    we were more than anxious to flop the top and flail the pedals.

    But what’s that? It’s an automatic!

    All of a sudden the fun factor seemed to shrivel up
    like a spider on a hot griddle.

    But we put our chauvinism aside
    and were in for a very pleasant surprise.

    Tell you right now,
    this thing was more fun to drive than any stick shift,
    and we’re stick-shift junkies.

    In short,
    it’s nothing less than a bellwether transition
    for the performance generation.

    By ’08, GM plans to have put nearly a million of them on the road,
    so it’s likely that one might eventually end up in your hot rod.

    In the Corvette, the transmission is mounted at the rear of the car,
    but in the supercharged ’06-‘07 Cadillac STS-V sedan
    (the only GM car so-equipped at this writing) it mates directly to the engine.

    It’s a Hydra-Matic unit called the 6L80.

    Trucks powered by 6.2L L92 engine get the 6L80, too,
    Heavy Duty models get the beefier 6L90 behind the6.0L

    In this report, however, we’ll focus on the former.

    The “old” 4L60, 4L65, and 4L70
    offers 3.06, 1.63, 1.00, and 0.70:1 ratios;
    already in its sophomore year,

    the 6L80/90 has ratios of 4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, and 0.67:1.

    As example, when pared with the Corvette’s standard 2.56:1 axle ratio
    it poses a very loooong-legged 1.72:1 final drive.

    Jeff Baran, chief project engineer, remarked:

    “We used knowledge and experience
    from the entire GM Powertrain network
    to engineer this transmission.

    It is a modular design
    to facilitate a broad application
    and it enables an easy plug-and-play approach.

    The transmission architecture was designed
    to satisfy a large matrix of attributes
    for current and future vehicle programs.

    It’s the first GM transmission ever designed in this way.”



    Obviously, most of this is in regards to avoiding a gas guzzler tax
    and promoting excellent highway mileage.

    If it is in anticipation of the ever-circling fuel gouge,
    is it strong enough for high performance application?

    According to Hydra-Matic specs,
    there will be four distinct variants
    (covering FWD, RWD, and AWD)
    launched in 25 different models this model year.

    Torque capacity ranges from 258lb-ft to a fat 520lb-ft.

    Shift speeds are up to 7,000rpm, driven by a 32-bit controller.

    Remember torque ratings are measured in 24-hour constant cycles at WOT,
    so there’s plenty of capacity here for a high-performance engine.

    Though the trucks use a button on the shifter,
    the C6 employs paddle shifters,
    located just above the center of the steering wheel
    that can be up- or downshifted with a thumb or forefinger
    at least as quickly as a full-on power shift with the T56.

    Gear changes happen right now.

    And your arm won’t get sore. Keep it mind.


    So what’s the subtext?

    While this configuration might be misconstrued as a fuel economy-only ploy,
    it was also created to enable premium shift quality and drivability,
    and therefore make the engine more flexible
    and add to the performance factor.

    It features new technologies as found in clutch-to-clutch operation,
    automatic grade braking, driver shift control (DSC),
    and enhanced performance algorithm shifting (PAS).

    What the gobbledygook boils down to is
    a tough transmission that fits the hot rod case so well that it’s scary.

    Yes, it’s electronically controlled.

    Yes, it will bolt to any Gen-III or Gen-IV LS engine.




    A 4-pinion input carrier gearset (left) and a compound 3-pinion output gearset uses three sets of pinion gear pairs;
    one set meshes with the sun gear and the other set with the ring gear.


    Although it’s rosy on the surface,
    in the short term there are some rather tall hurdles
    that make this proposition impractical for the hot rod nation.

    The 6L80, along with the rest of the car’s major functions
    (HVAC, stability control, ABS, etc.) are integral to the whole.

    When they “talk” to one another,
    they must all be present for the conversation,
    so if you installed a 6L80 in your LS-powered hot rod right now,
    it flat wouldn’t work.

    According to GM Powertrain Engineer Jim La Fontaine,
    the transmission might be able to engage Low gear, but that’s all.

    By SEMA ’07, there will be better news.
    Facilitation for the swap might better come from the aftermarket.
    To giant GM, it doesn’t even blip the radar screen—yet.

    So for the immediate present, the carrot dangles,
    but we suggest that you do not bite.



    So why is this carrot so tempting?

    That 4.02:1 Low gear ratio is very generous,
    so launch acceleration is stout.

    GM engineers estimate that the gear spread cuts 0-60 acceleration times
    by as much as 7 percent compared to a four- or five-gear automatic.

    Gearing is fairly wide,
    but since there are six speeds instead only four,
    engine rpm between upshifts does not dip appreciably.

    Finally, the tall overdriven gears help fuel economy.

    The 6L80 employs an internal controller that operates in a bath of fluid.

    Although it isn’t uncommon to have a transmission control module
    that adapts to the specific gearbox,
    and to also have programming that optimizes transmission performance characteristics
    according to a variety of input, 6L80 adds another level of “thinking.”

    Components within its seven major subsystems learn from one another
    via the controller software in a unique form of self-adaptation
    that maximizes the interface of all the “networked” components.



    6L90
    This transmission was recently introduced in the HD 2500 series Silverado and Sierra trucks.

    Think of it as the heavy-duty version of the 6L80,
    featuring a strengthened input gearset
    that has two additional pinion gears (6 total),
    and a stronger output gearset that uses wider gears than 6L80

    The 6L90 shares about 75 percent of its parts with the 80,
    although the transmission case is slightly (35mm) longer.

    The torque converter is an 11-inch unit.

    Gear changes from Second to Sixth are by clutch-to-clutch control,
    e.g., an oncoming clutch is engaged
    and an “off going” clutch is released in a precise manner
    to achieve the ratio change.

    The first-to-second upshift, however, is a freewheeling action
    where the second-gear clutch engages while the first-gear one-way clutch spins freely.

    This was done to allow a greater degree of smoothness at lower speed.

    This was also incorporated to lend more efficiency to an overall package
    that’s not much larger than the 4L60.



    The 6L90 has three gearsets,
    a conventional input planetary gearset with four pinion gears,
    as well as one compound output gearset
    and one simple output gearset.

    The compound output gearset uses three sets of pinion gear pairs,
    with one set of pinions meshing with the sun gear
    and the other set with the ring gear.

    A 4-pinion input carrier gearset (left)
    and a compound 3-pinion output gearset
    uses three sets of pinion gear pairs;
    one set meshes with the sun gear
    and the other set with the ring gear.


    Click here to See the Differences in Size
    and go to the bottom of the page






    What happens next?

    We’ll have to wait a little while until the boneyards claim some victims.
    Hopefully, the aftermarket will have aided and abetted by then.

    Probably sooner than later,
    GM Performance Parts will offer some version of the six-speed for hot rod use.
    Undoubtedly it will entail some sort of pony electronics
    to make it work with your LS-series engine.
    MaxChevy will keep you up to date on the 6L80/90’s forward progress.















    Currently their are three different bellhouse configurations,

    the Corvette style,

    the Chevy/GMC pick up style,

    and the Cadillac STSV/XLRV.

    These transmissions will not interchange

    because the pump is attached to the bellhouse.

    This transmission also has a lip seal located in the bearing,

    so replacing bearings, is an important procedure.

    The nuetral safety switch

    is also located in the pan

    so transmission entry is now required.



    1st gear ratio is 4.027:1

    2nd gear ratio is 2.363:1

    3rd gear ratio is 1.532:1

    4th gear ratio is 1.152:1

    5th gear ratio is .852:1

    6th gear ratio is .667:1



    Dexron VI is required. 10-12 Qts depending on application.


    weight: 222lbs
    max gearbox torque: 664lb.-ft.




    .
    Last edited by matt5112; 09-28-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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  2. #2 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    The Blue One blueguy's Avatar
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    Cool.
    Sold WBody's: '03 Blue GTP/'98 Green GTP/'98 Silver GT/'05 GXP
    '99 Chevrolet Silverado Classic Z71 4x4 - K&N Intake/Gibson Exhaust #TRUCKTHINGS
    '12 Buick Regal Turbo - ZZP CAI/20% Tint/HID's
    '89 Ford Mustang LX Notchback - LM7 5.3, 4L80, 9", HX40
    '04 Chevrolet Corvette MRM A4/LS1 - TSP LT's, 3"O/R X, AFE S2 CAI
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  3. #3 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    The mod from over yonder TheOtherNick's Avatar
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    Hope to god gm doesnt drop the Allison behind the duramax.
    01 gtp-big cam e85 dd 78dodge- guzzling fuel 05 cummins- rollin coal
    SMGPFC Two Nipple General
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  4. #4 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    Donating Users Taz Magister's Avatar
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    yup
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  5. #5 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    L means longitudinal, not transverse.

    What does this imply regarding the OP's intelligence?
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  6. #6 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    I live here. SlowNA06's Avatar
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    "automatic grade braking" ...does that mean it slows you down when you cruise down a hill? If so, ew.
    Irridium spark plugs last 100k mi and work just as well as copper. Copper is a waste on N/A and only lasts 15k mi. Don't use Platinum.
    Use 195* tstat unless you can thoroughly explain why not; 99.9% don't need a lower temp.
    Almost any oil filter, ever, is of higher quality than ACDelco. Spend $6+.
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  7. #7 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    Donating Users 16MustangVet's Avatar
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    Cool and all but if your concerned about gear #s in an automatic new chargers 300s and forsure some of the big lexus cars use 8 speed autos not sure who manufactures them though.
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  8. #8 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    Perhaps you Missed, the First Paragraph,

    According to Hydra-Matic specs,
    there will be four distinct variants
    (covering FWD, RWD, and AWD)

    So what do you Think about a 6 Speed,
    in Your Grand Prix?
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  9. #9 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    Grocery Getter x2 goldgp's Avatar
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    Was really hoping this post was about a manual tranny we could use...lol Cool tho.
    1998 GTP Mods: Getrag 5 speed ,balanced bottom end,ARP hardware,L32 rods,Federal pistons .20 over,XP Cammed,Double roller,130# springs,and 3.4 Gen V,SSC springs,GMPP sways, C5 calipers,12 inch brakes.2000 Grand Prix SE 3.8 Mods: GT dual exaust,plog,downpipe,Transgo Shift kit,1.9 yella terra rr,strut braces,gmpp kit.Both noob tuned with HP Tuner
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  10. #10 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    GXP Level Member boostedcompg's Avatar
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    theres two you can use. but remember the auto will shift faster then you ever could hope to
    04 comp G, front/rear towerbraces, pacesetters, ported sc, LIM, 3.3 pulley, 1.9 mod rockers, Ls1 springs and retainers, custom dyno tune, 180 tstat, shortned dog bones, full poly mounts, zzp shift kit, custom fwi, 28inch cherry bomb, flowmaster 40's. 290whp 380wtq before the button. coldfusion n2o, 60 shot. I haz corvette brakezand gxp cluster! smgpfc028
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  11. #11 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlT View Post
    Perhaps you Missed, the First Paragraph,

    According to Hydra-Matic specs,
    there will be four distinct variants
    (covering FWD, RWD, and AWD)

    So what do you Think about a 6 Speed,
    in Your Grand Prix?
    You only have info on the RWD variant.... Absolutely nothing about the FWD variant...

    The 6T70.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6T70_transmission

    Seems to be high feature only... Which means GM High Feature. Not metric.

    Bellhousing is integral which means adapter will be more difficult.

    General Motors rates their 6T70 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) and the 6T75 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 300 lb·ft (407 N·m).
    I'm not so excited. Thats stock L67/L32 torque levels right there. Touch the motor at all and you're past its rating.

    So clearly you haven't done any research on the topic.
    Last edited by matt5112; 10-01-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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  12. #12 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    I know this is an old thread but I'm looking into this right now...
    The 6t70 might be rated to 280 or 300, but so is the 4t65 and the 6t70 is a much stronger setup.

    I'm going to figure out how to drop one of these in my Regal.
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  13. #13 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    a custom torque converter.

    Does this one have an internal TCM or was it external?
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  14. #14 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    GrandPrix Junkie redlinepontiac's Avatar
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    rwd swap the regal with a back half kit...
    RayRay
    92 Turbo miata
    71 bagged lemans wagon
    02 lexus is300
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  15. #15 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    No rwd swap.
    The 6T70/75 has an internal computer. As for the physical bolting up to the car... they now offer this trans in the 2012 Impala which is a W-body. GM is lazy, bolt patterns and mounts shouldn't be an issue. The only thing really holding this back would be the computer.
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  16. #16 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    I thought the new Impalas were Epsilon chassis or some such? I didn't know they were still W-cars.... cool beans.
    1978 F250 2wd (460 c.i.d. / C6)- soon to give up the powerplant to an '80-'86 F150
    White 2000 Grand Prix GT coupe
    One still slow and loud... other one scoots just a bit.

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  17. #17 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    The bolt pattern is GM high value, not GM Metric.

    Then you need to connect to the converter.

    Then you need to control the TCM and have it communicate with your vehicle in some way.
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  18. #18 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
    GrandPrix Junkie redlinepontiac's Avatar
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    TCI makes standalones for transmissions....
    RayRay
    92 Turbo miata
    71 bagged lemans wagon
    02 lexus is300
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  19. #19 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    Maybe I'm wrong about the body... but who is TCI?
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  20. #20 Re: 6 Speed FWD Pay Attention - This is the Next Big Thing 
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    tci is a torque converter company...no?

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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